Author Topic: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi  (Read 51998 times)

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Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #615 on: November 17, 2012, 04:00:20 PM »
Loose cannon: my mother believes this pretty firmly. She said it during Clinton's scandal, during the birther argument, etc. interesting...I thought it was her own take on things (after being very politically involved during watergate).

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Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #616 on: November 17, 2012, 04:07:54 PM »
Loose cannon: my mother believes this pretty firmly. She said it during Clinton's scandal, during the birther argument, etc. interesting...I thought it was her own take on things (after being very politically involved during watergate).

  Which of Clinton's scandals? There were practically too many to count.

Offline Brendan

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #617 on: November 17, 2012, 07:10:03 PM »
Libby was convicted of several charges, including obstruction of justice.  It's reasonable to conclude that Libby prevented us from every finding out what laws were broken, taking on a lesser punishment as a fall guy in order to prevent other people from being given a more serious punishment.

Ever since Watergate, some right wingers have seemed desperate to nail a Democrat on something so they can claim that both sides have an equivalent history of corruption and scandal.  They're mad as hell that Whitewater or Solyndra or Fast and Furious hasn't been that smoking gun.  The more reasonable conservatives that I talk to can admit that Watergate was bad and that no Democrat in the White House has come close to doing something that bad.  The crazier ones keep looking for the next potential scandal and keep being disappointed.
Projection. Modern liberals are just mad they didn't get to Watergate Bush.

Anyways at the end of the whole Libby thing they did know the truth. The leak wasn't in the VPOTUS' office, it was in State, it was Richard Armitage, Colin Powell's assistant who leaked it all around. Powell, like Bush, had presented the evidence - maybe he had Armitage leak it to make himself look better. See here: http://spectator.org/blog/2012/10/25/the-dishonorable-colin-powell

Facts are facts - we have no explanation of why Rice was out lying to the media. The reason my POV keeps changing (and overall it hasn't much: failure to provide security in advance, failure to react during siege, lying afterwards has been the basis of my criticism, all still in tact, speculation that lying was politically motivated by campaign remains top of my list of guesses, specific reason why has changed based on latest facts as I understand them.)

Offline nickagneta

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #618 on: November 17, 2012, 07:31:51 PM »
I thought the whole Bush administration was crooked. US Justice scandal, Plame scandal, Katrina handling, Patriot Act, torturing at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, Tom Delay, Haliburton, Albert Gonzales, and that guy that ripped off the Indian tribes in Louisiana are just the tip of the iceberg.

Kinda strange since his dad's administration was a fairly scandal-less time in politics(except maybe the pardon Bush Sr. granted to the Iran Contra people).

Clinton's administration had a lot of dirt too.

I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.
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Offline Celtics4ever

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #619 on: November 17, 2012, 07:42:14 PM »
There was no attempt to prosecute Bush,  Obama could have went down that road and he didn't.  The Bush admin was corrupt as could be but you could say that about any administration as there are bad apples in anything that large. 

You are making a mountain out of a molehill, loosecannon, your aim isn't that accurate.   We could look at a real scandal like why did Osama escape Tora Bora.   Or a woefully unsuited commander in chief who did nothing for seven minutes prior to reacting to 9/11.  Nope, we liberals pulled together because we put country ahead of politics and supported the admininstration.  There are GOP who will never be able to say that and in fact undermine it.   

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/01/opinion/the-great-escape.html


We could have pursued this oddity.  It is fact and it much more serious matter than four dead dipolmats, why don't you pursue it with as much ire???/

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #620 on: November 17, 2012, 08:47:08 PM »
I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.

This statement goes against the article of faith held by some that both sides are equally bad, therefore it must be false.
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Offline nickagneta

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #621 on: November 17, 2012, 09:12:53 PM »
I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.

This statement goes against the article of faith held by some that both sides are equally bad, therefore it must be false.
I think both sides are equally bad. I think the Clinton administration was pretty corrupt. I think the Bush administration extremely corrupt. But I also think the first Bush administration and the Obama administration haven't been corrupt.

Two Dem and two Reps. Each with their scandals and each with their rather scandal-less administrations.

BTW I think I know that you were being facetious. At least I think you were.
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Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #622 on: November 17, 2012, 10:39:51 PM »
I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.

This statement goes against the article of faith held by some that both sides are equally bad, therefore it must be false.

  Not all administrations are equally corrupt. Obama's administration has clearly had major issues, but it hasn't been equally bad as, for instance, the Clinton administration, where the scandals never ended.

 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 10:49:13 PM by BballTim »

Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #623 on: November 17, 2012, 10:45:51 PM »
There was no attempt to prosecute Bush,  Obama could have went down that road and he didn't.

  He actually couldn't. All of the outrage over "torture" and threats of investigations died a quick death when it came to light that some of the democrats (including Pelosi) knew that waterboarding was an option when it was occurring and did nothing to stop it.

Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #624 on: November 17, 2012, 10:52:04 PM »
I thought the whole Bush administration was crooked. US Justice scandal, Plame scandal, Katrina handling, Patriot Act, torturing at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, Tom Delay, Haliburton, Albert Gonzales, and that guy that ripped off the Indian tribes in Louisiana are just the tip of the iceberg.

  Some of that's grasping for straws. The Patriot act? And Katrina was about as much of a scandal for Bush as the BP oil spill was for Obama.
 

Offline BballTim

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #625 on: November 17, 2012, 10:54:42 PM »
I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.

This statement goes against the article of faith held by some that both sides are equally bad, therefore it must be false.
I think both sides are equally bad. I think the Clinton administration was pretty corrupt. I think the Bush administration extremely corrupt. But I also think the first Bush administration and the Obama administration haven't been corrupt.

Two Dem and two Reps. Each with their scandals and each with their rather scandal-less administrations.

BTW I think I know that you were being facetious. At least I think you were.

  No, he's genuinely upset that not everyone feels that democrats are morally superior to republicans.

Offline nickagneta

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #626 on: November 17, 2012, 11:55:31 PM »
I thought the whole Bush administration was crooked. US Justice scandal, Plame scandal, Katrina handling, Patriot Act, torturing at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, Tom Delay, Haliburton, Albert Gonzales, and that guy that ripped off the Indian tribes in Louisiana are just the tip of the iceberg.

  Some of that's grasping for straws. The Patriot act? And Katrina was about as much of a scandal for Bush as the BP oil spill was for Obama.
By the Patriot Act I meant some of the unauthorized and illegal wire tapping and email perusing done in the name of the Act by the administration. There was a name for that scandal I can't remember it like the NSA wire tap scandal or something like that.

By Katrina I meant the entire delayed handling of the situation but also much of the corrupt and ridiculous handling in the Homeland security area that gave tons of money to temporary lodging companies(a temp home building company and the cruise ship companies that were overpaid hundreds of millions for temporary lodging that never got used).

I don't think that or Abramhoff or some of the other stuff is grasping for straws at all. Corruption within the administration and the Republican Party is what led to Democrats coming back into power(that along with the economy).
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Offline nickagneta

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #627 on: November 17, 2012, 11:58:42 PM »
BTW I really put this Libya thing in about the same context and scandalousness as that of Bush standing in front of a victory sign and declaring "Mission accomplished!"

Wasn't that pretty much a lie or a deception of the American public? How many American soldiers died after that in Iraq?
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Online LooseCannon

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #628 on: November 18, 2012, 12:13:13 AM »
I think in comparison Obama's administration is fairly un-corrupt.

This statement goes against the article of faith held by some that both sides are equally bad, therefore it must be false.
I think both sides are equally bad. I think the Clinton administration was pretty corrupt. I think the Bush administration extremely corrupt. But I also think the first Bush administration and the Obama administration haven't been corrupt.

Two Dem and two Reps. Each with their scandals and each with their rather scandal-less administrations.

BTW I think I know that you were being facetious. At least I think you were.

  No, he's genuinely upset that not everyone feels that democrats are morally superior to republicans.

I'm more amused than upset.
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Offline Brendan

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #629 on: November 18, 2012, 02:47:01 PM »
BTW I really put this Libya thing in about the same context and scandalousness as that of Bush standing in front of a victory sign and declaring "Mission accomplished!"

Wasn't that pretty much a lie or a deception of the American public? How many American soldiers died after that in Iraq?
Lets focus on facts. Bush never said "Mission Accomplished" the sign behind him said that, it was put out by the boat's PA people BECAUSE THE SHIP HAD ACCOMPLISHED ITS MISSION. Was it bad PR? Yes, but not a scandal.

Blaming Bush for members of Congress is a joke. We can blame Obama for Jess Jackson Jr then - who is going to jail and is a congressman from Chicago. We can blame Murtha on the dems, etc.

I'd say that Libya >> Scooter Libby & Plame affair if you bother to look at the facts and not the propaganda.

The Patriot act thing was a leak of how it was being applied, and I don't think it was illegal, even tho I'm against it, but since Obama has carried on every single national security thing that the left was so angry about (rendition, pseudo-torture, snooping, Gitmo) I think they should either focus on Obama (since he is in office) or shut up about it. (I'm against the policy generally - but without knowing all the details I'm not going to get too worked up.)

Abu Gharib - was an isolated incident of military incompetence, I don't think the Bush admin was ever actually tied (versus implied) to it.

Etc. etc.

I view Obama and GWB as on par once you correct for media bias. Of course lets see what starts leaking in the second term. Chicago politicians run this administration, lets say they are not as a class known for competence and integrity in governing.

Clinton was awful.

 

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