Author Topic: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi  (Read 54800 times)

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #600 on: November 17, 2012, 11:15:32 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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I'm just wondering what it will take for people to admit this administration is, and has covered its tracks? You should all be insulted for the lies being fed to you.  Your guy abused his power to stonewall the fast and furious investigation, and he lied about not knowing who was behind the attacks in Libya.

The excuses and willful ignoring of the facts over this by Obama's supporters would make each memeber of the OJ jury blush.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #601 on: November 17, 2012, 11:20:17 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I'm just wondering what it will take for people to admit this administration is, and has covered its tracks?

I would require actual evidence, something that hasn't been produced yet.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #602 on: November 17, 2012, 11:24:04 AM »

Online nickagneta

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Scooter Libby was cleared of wrongdoing?

He was convicted of a felony and had his sentenced commuted for political reasons(mostly because he was the fall guy for the Vice President). How was he cleared of wrongdoing?

Also Bush did lie about his reasons for starting a war and ultimately those lies were responsible for 4000 American soldiers dying, as much as 200,000 Iraqis dying and a trillion dollars in debt. He lied to start a war of aggression.

If this administration lied, and I think it will come down to the CIA sending out bad intel because they wanted to hide their involvement, it was after something happened which was an attack by extremists on our possible fake consulate. The administrations "lie" wasn't directly responsible for those deaths. Bush's lies were. I see a huge difference in that.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #603 on: November 17, 2012, 11:29:36 AM »

Offline crownsy

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My pragmatic view is every administration lies to the American people.

The level of outrage is just modulated by what party is in office. If your parties in then It wasn't *really* a lie, and die hards will defend the administration to the death.

If the other guys party is in office, then they are scum and should be impeached.

It's one of the reasons I hate politics as a general rule. Very few want to have an honest discussion, they just want to assign blame.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #604 on: November 17, 2012, 11:42:54 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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From the NY Times:

Quote
David H. Petraeus, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, told lawmakers on Friday that classified intelligence reports revealed that the deadly assault on the American diplomatic mission in Libya was a terrorist attack, but that the administration refrained from saying it suspected that the perpetrators of the attack were Al Qaeda affiliates and sympathizers to avoid tipping off the groups.

...

 “The points were not, as has been insinuated by some, edited to minimize the role of extremists, diminish terrorist affiliations, or play down that this was an attack,” said a senior official familiar with the drafting of the talking points. “There were legitimate intelligence and legal issues to consider, as is almost always the case when explaining classified assessments publicly.”

Some intelligence analysts worried, for instance, that identifying the groups could reveal that American spy services were eavesdropping on the militants — a fact most insurgents are already aware of. Justice Department lawyers expressed concern about jeopardizing the F.B.I.’s criminal inquiry in the attacks. Other officials voiced concern that making the names public, at least right away, would create a circular reporting loop and hamper efforts to trail the militants.

Democrats said Mr. Petraeus made it clear the change had not been done for political reasons to aid Mr. Obama. “The general was adamant there was no politicization of the process, no White House interference or political agenda,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California.

Republicans such as John McCain, Lindsay Graham, and Peter King just seem desperate to find a scandal to latch onto.

Whatever happened to those conservatives who thought the reveal of the Petraeus affair was part of a cover-up to keep the CIA director from testifying before Congress?  That was always a silly claim that never made sense.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #605 on: November 17, 2012, 12:11:33 PM »

Offline Cman

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From the NY Times:

Quote
David H. Petraeus, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, told lawmakers on Friday that classified intelligence reports revealed that the deadly assault on the American diplomatic mission in Libya was a terrorist attack, but that the administration refrained from saying it suspected that the perpetrators of the attack were Al Qaeda affiliates and sympathizers to avoid tipping off the groups.

...

 “The points were not, as has been insinuated by some, edited to minimize the role of extremists, diminish terrorist affiliations, or play down that this was an attack,” said a senior official familiar with the drafting of the talking points. “There were legitimate intelligence and legal issues to consider, as is almost always the case when explaining classified assessments publicly.”

Some intelligence analysts worried, for instance, that identifying the groups could reveal that American spy services were eavesdropping on the militants — a fact most insurgents are already aware of. Justice Department lawyers expressed concern about jeopardizing the F.B.I.’s criminal inquiry in the attacks. Other officials voiced concern that making the names public, at least right away, would create a circular reporting loop and hamper efforts to trail the militants.

Democrats said Mr. Petraeus made it clear the change had not been done for political reasons to aid Mr. Obama. “The general was adamant there was no politicization of the process, no White House interference or political agenda,” said Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California.

Republicans such as John McCain, Lindsay Graham, and Peter King just seem desperate to find a scandal to latch onto.

Whatever happened to those conservatives who thought the reveal of the Petraeus affair was part of a cover-up to keep the CIA director from testifying before Congress?  That was always a silly claim that never made sense.

Their efforts to create scandal have just led to a lot of confusion (perhaps their own, more than anything else).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 12:22:17 PM by Cman »
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #606 on: November 17, 2012, 12:13:56 PM »

Offline OmarSekou

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I'm just wondering what it will take for people to admit this administration is, and has covered its tracks? You should all be insulted for the lies being fed to you.  Your guy abused his power to stonewall the fast and furious investigation, and he lied about not knowing who was behind the attacks in Libya.

The excuses and willful ignoring of the facts over this by Obama's supporters would make each memeber of the OJ jury blush.
The reality is that we don't know the facts. This is true with every administration. Another reality is that in issues of national security, the public shouldn't always know the facts. The reason is that if we have complete transparency on these things, our enemies have a free playbook for how to attack and we'll be exposed to some not so great things we've done to maintain our status as a modern hegemon (they've already come out and said that in more indirect words).

This administration has been relatively strong in international affairs compared to the previous one. Which is why to take one incident that was a failure and try to use it to discredit everything positive that has been done is absurd. The attack on Benghazi has become a major issue because it was politicized right before an election. These types of attacks do happen, and are one of the dangers of being a foreign service officer in a hostile region.

The reason I side with Obama on this is because his stance has been "let's catch the people who did this and find out what happened." A lot of people seem more invested in finding ways to blame Obama directly for this incident. While we wait for more information to come in let me pose you a hypothetical, suppose you are right and Obama picked up a phone and said, "this Libya thing is no good, let's cover it up." What do you think his reasoning for doing so was?

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #607 on: November 17, 2012, 12:27:25 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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While we wait for more information to come in let me pose you a hypothetical, suppose you are right and Obama picked up a phone and said, "this Libya thing is no good, let's cover it up." What do you think his reasoning for doing so was?

I suspect the argument some conservatives believe is that he is a naturally shifty guy with an instinct for lying, given his covering up about being born in Kenya and being a Muslim.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #608 on: November 17, 2012, 12:59:52 PM »

Online foulweatherfan

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While we wait for more information to come in let me pose you a hypothetical, suppose you are right and Obama picked up a phone and said, "this Libya thing is no good, let's cover it up." What do you think his reasoning for doing so was?

I suspect the argument some conservatives believe is that he is a naturally shifty guy with an instinct for lying, given his covering up about being born in Kenya and being a Muslim.

I think the underlying theme behind many (EDIT: Not all) of these criticisms is that maybe Obama didn't mind so much that this attack was successful, because he sympathizes with the attackers.  It ties into the whole "foreigner/anticolonialist/secret Muslim" metameme that's been such a theme of the last four years.  Imagine for a minute that you believed such a thing and suddenly the vagueness of the actual arguments makes a lot more sense.


Republicans such as John McCain, Lindsay Graham, and Peter King just seem desperate to find a scandal to latch onto.

Whatever happened to those conservatives who thought the reveal of the Petraeus affair was part of a cover-up to keep the CIA director from testifying before Congress?  That was always a silly claim that never made sense.

Their efforts to create scandal have just led to a lot of confusion (perhaps their own, more than anything else).

A fun exercise (if you're ever bored enough) is to go back through the thread and count how many different angles the "scandal" has taken.  It's something like half a dozen, and as soon as one is debunked - like my favorite, Obama watching them die and deliberately refusing to send help like some mustache-twirling villain - the narrative immediately pivots to another.  Looks like we're back on semantics this week.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 01:34:46 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #609 on: November 17, 2012, 01:17:24 PM »

Offline BballTim

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While we wait for more information to come in let me pose you a hypothetical, suppose you are right and Obama picked up a phone and said, "this Libya thing is no good, let's cover it up." What do you think his reasoning for doing so was?

I suspect the argument some conservatives believe is that he is a naturally shifty guy with an instinct for lying, given his covering up about being born in Kenya and being a Muslim.

 Close. He's a naturally shifty guy with an instinct for lying, given his being a politician.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #610 on: November 17, 2012, 01:41:49 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Maybe you guys should get the MEMO the GOP lost the election, Petraeus was the head of the CIA, he is a republican, and ultimately in charge of intelligence regarding this matter.  Broadwell, Allen and Kelley are all republicans it is no wonder we missed this matter and losing in Afghanistan if our general and war leaders are worried more about hanky panky than the country.
4 people died in this attack.   Over 2K died in 9/11 and the liberals raised far less noise about that matter than the GOP have over this one.   I guess, when you have no ideas this is what you do in politics.

Obama really has them over a barrel.   He will get his tax increases either way.  If we go over the cliff he gets them and doesn't have to worry about a second term.   If he gets revision he gets them because he holds all the power.

But still some are trying to make this a bigger issue than what it is folks.   Do you realize Israel is getting ready to invade  Gaza which has great potential to spill over?

Keep up the partisanship, it is why you lost.   I guess some never learn.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #611 on: November 17, 2012, 01:47:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Maybe you guys should get the MEMO the GOP lost the election, Petraeus was the head of the CIA, he is a republican, and ultimately in charge of intelligence regarding this matter.  Broadwell, Allen and Kelley are all republicans it is no wonder we missed this matter and losing in Afghanistan if our general and war leaders are worried more about hanky panky than the country.
4 people died in this attack.   Over 2K died in 9/11 and the liberals raised far less noise about that matter than the GOP have over this one.   I guess, when you have no ideas this is what you do in politics.

Obama really has them over a barrel.   He will get his tax increases either way.  If we go over the cliff he gets them and doesn't have to worry about a second term.   If he gets revision he gets them because he holds all the power.

But still some are trying to make this a bigger issue than what it is folks.   Do you realize Israel is getting ready to invade  Gaza which has great potential to spill over?

Keep up the partisanship, it is why you lost.   I guess some never learn.

  Nothing like a partisan post telling supporters of the other party they should stop being so partisan.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #612 on: November 17, 2012, 02:45:51 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Progressives / liberals / democrats on this board are getting more irritable about Libya. Therefore I conclude Republican pressure on the issue is the correct political play.

Does this mean that I should opt for posting content on this board that is most likely to get conservatives/Republicans here in a tizzy?
I mean republican politicians bringing pressure. I don't post here to irritate only to educate :)

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #613 on: November 17, 2012, 02:48:26 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Scooter Libby was cleared of wrongdoing?

He was convicted of a felony and had his sentenced commuted for political reasons(mostly because he was the fall guy for the Vice President). How was he cleared of wrongdoing?

Also Bush did lie about his reasons for starting a war and ultimately those lies were responsible for 4000 American soldiers dying, as much as 200,000 Iraqis dying and a trillion dollars in debt. He lied to start a war of aggression.

If this administration lied, and I think it will come down to the CIA sending out bad intel because they wanted to hide their involvement, it was after something happened which was an attack by extremists on our possible fake consulate. The administrations "lie" wasn't directly responsible for those deaths. Bush's lies were. I see a huge difference in that.
What was bush's lie? He repeated the intelligence he had.

Scooter was cleared of any leak or breach of security, he was convicted of a dubious perjury charge on the basis of russets recollections, which russet himself want sure of. Warranted a pardon. #facts

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #614 on: November 17, 2012, 03:45:12 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Libby was convicted of several charges, including obstruction of justice.  It's reasonable to conclude that Libby prevented us from every finding out what laws were broken, taking on a lesser punishment as a fall guy in order to prevent other people from being given a more serious punishment.

Ever since Watergate, some right wingers have seemed desperate to nail a Democrat on something so they can claim that both sides have an equivalent history of corruption and scandal.  They're mad as hell that Whitewater or Solyndra or Fast and Furious hasn't been that smoking gun.  The more reasonable conservatives that I talk to can admit that Watergate was bad and that no Democrat in the White House has come close to doing something that bad.  The crazier ones keep looking for the next potential scandal and keep being disappointed.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

 

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