Author Topic: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi  (Read 55631 times)

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #495 on: November 05, 2012, 06:59:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Chris Christie seems to think Obama can run a pretty decent emergency management system.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #496 on: November 05, 2012, 07:13:49 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Apparently Obama can run a good foreign policy since Mitt has already admitted in the debates he will be doing everything just about the same as Obama.
That doesn't make Obama better, makes them equal in that area...which may or may not be a compliment to either of them.   ???
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #497 on: November 05, 2012, 07:18:24 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Why did the RNC and Romney get silent after the 2nd presidential debate about the Libya situation?

Maybe it has something to do with the person being completely at fault being Petraeus, a person who is decidedly Republican and looked at as a future power in the party.
Oh yes. I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy. But since Obama appointed him to lead CIA, he still bears culpability. And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign. Also why is he republican? He's a distinctly American hero, the man who led Iraq back from the brink. Who was sent to cleanup in Afghanistan without real domestic support, and the man who should of been Chair of JCoS, but took the thankless lead on CIA when asked by a dem admin. Has ever came out as a republican?

I really disagree with all that, aside from David Petraeus being an American hero, and not being an especially partisan politician type. Everything else there strikes me as baseless speculation and outright false characterizations.

Peeps are reacting like DP is some partisan politician, voting Republican is a big difference, especially since he's spent his life in service to the country. You guys are straight drooling over the opportunity to see a potential R fail before he's even a politician. The only political post he's held he was appointed to by a republican.

I have no idea where you get that I'm 'straight drooling' over anything. All I've said is that I agree Patraeus is a hero and not really a partisan figure. You're completely off base here.

Quote
On the other hand please identify my "baseless speculation" and [lies]

I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy.
-baseless speculation, there is nothing out there, either from the President's response or from anywhere else that has shown he is hoping to paint anyone as 'the fall guy', aside from himself.

And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign.
-false mischaracterization, or an outright lie if you like. Barack Obama has done many things well besides run a campaign. Securing what now looks like a CIA base of operations in Libya on 9/11 might not have been one of them, but your characterization is nonetheless, false. 

  Obviously his characterization isn't false, it's just an opinion that you disagree with. If you want to call it an outright lie you should have indisputable proof that it's not true.

Semantics. Barack Obama has done some things well as president. The spirit of the characterization is erroneous.

  Semantics? Really? "I disagree with you opinion, therefore I'm labeling your claim an outright lie"? Wow.

I find your opinion invalid because its premise is untrue. Or a 'false mischaracterization'. If you're going to summarize my posts, get em right, please.

  Which part of my summary do you think was false, that you disagreed with his opinion or that you labeled it an outright lie?

The opinion was based on a false premise, that's the part you have been missing in your 3 post rebuttal semantics counter argument. Or, would you rather advocate the position that Barack Obama hasn't done a single thing well during his presidency.

The whole thing at this point is silly, but there we are. The notion that Barack Obama has not done a single thing well this entire presidency as a supporting point to defending a non-attack on David Patraeus in a thread about Libya isn't a valid opinion.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #498 on: November 05, 2012, 07:18:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Apparently Obama can run a good foreign policy since Mitt has already admitted in the debates he will be doing everything just about the same as Obama.
That doesn't make Obama better, makes them equal in that area...which may or may not be a compliment to either of them.   ???
Never said it makes Obama better than Mitt. Just pointing out that Obama run something well other than an election campaign, as Brendan theorized on.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #499 on: November 05, 2012, 08:03:18 PM »

Offline Brendan

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He is not running "some aspect of foreign policy that mitt Romney agrees with" he is running the country. And not successfully. Yes this is an opinion, but by his own standards its failing. Feel free to move the goal posts for him.

Previously he was a senator (but not senior enough IMO to actually run anything) and a lackluster college professor, and what else?

Never ran anything, reason he's failing as prez, not a good look to learn on the job as pouts.

Even if y want to break pouts down into small pieces what would they be?

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #500 on: November 05, 2012, 08:13:38 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Apparently Obama can run a good foreign policy since Mitt has already admitted in the debates he will be doing everything just about the same as Obama.

  So you're a big fan of Romney's foreign policy ideas?

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #501 on: November 05, 2012, 08:17:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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He is not running "some aspect of foreign policy that mitt Romney agrees with" he is running the country. And not successfully. Yes this is an opinion, but by his own standards its failing. Feel free to move the goal posts for him.

Previously he was a senator (but not senior enough IMO to actually run anything) and a lackluster college professor, and what else?

Never ran anything, reason he's failing as prez, not a good look to learn on the job as pouts.

Even if y want to break pouts down into small pieces what would they be?
Wait, he can run a campaign successfully but not specific parts of his Presidential job? Its totality or nothing? That seems rather unfair especially since getting re-elected is a part of his job as a politician with the other being President.

And at least we have finally arrived at the fact that your comment is just an opinion.

Mine is that overall, he hasn't done a very good job. As a matter of fact, I'm extremely disappointed in his job performance over the last four years.

But Mitt Romney is everything that is wrong about American politics. he has sold out his real stances for votes from the far right. He has repeatedly misled people regarding his accomplishments as Governor of Massachusetts( a state he couldn't have gotten re-elected in as governor if he tried). He will say anything. He will give no details. And he is willing cut the safety nets from the poor, sick and elderly in this country for the sake of making the rich richer.

I trust Obama's stances on foreign policy and social issues. I think his move towards universal healthcare is the right move. I think his policies economically have the country moving in the right direction though I think he has to cut spending and make government spending of all types more efficient. All things I don't trust with Romney. So, Obama gets the vote, especially because of the social issues.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #502 on: November 05, 2012, 08:18:00 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Apparently Obama can run a good foreign policy since Mitt has already admitted in the debates he will be doing everything just about the same as Obama.

  So you're a big fan of Romney's foreign policy ideas?
Yup.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #503 on: November 05, 2012, 08:46:29 PM »

Offline BballTim

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Why did the RNC and Romney get silent after the 2nd presidential debate about the Libya situation?

Maybe it has something to do with the person being completely at fault being Petraeus, a person who is decidedly Republican and looked at as a future power in the party.
Oh yes. I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy. But since Obama appointed him to lead CIA, he still bears culpability. And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign. Also why is he republican? He's a distinctly American hero, the man who led Iraq back from the brink. Who was sent to cleanup in Afghanistan without real domestic support, and the man who should of been Chair of JCoS, but took the thankless lead on CIA when asked by a dem admin. Has ever came out as a republican?

I really disagree with all that, aside from David Petraeus being an American hero, and not being an especially partisan politician type. Everything else there strikes me as baseless speculation and outright false characterizations.

Peeps are reacting like DP is some partisan politician, voting Republican is a big difference, especially since he's spent his life in service to the country. You guys are straight drooling over the opportunity to see a potential R fail before he's even a politician. The only political post he's held he was appointed to by a republican.

I have no idea where you get that I'm 'straight drooling' over anything. All I've said is that I agree Patraeus is a hero and not really a partisan figure. You're completely off base here.

Quote
On the other hand please identify my "baseless speculation" and [lies]

I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy.
-baseless speculation, there is nothing out there, either from the President's response or from anywhere else that has shown he is hoping to paint anyone as 'the fall guy', aside from himself.

And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign.
-false mischaracterization, or an outright lie if you like. Barack Obama has done many things well besides run a campaign. Securing what now looks like a CIA base of operations in Libya on 9/11 might not have been one of them, but your characterization is nonetheless, false. 

  Obviously his characterization isn't false, it's just an opinion that you disagree with. If you want to call it an outright lie you should have indisputable proof that it's not true.

Semantics. Barack Obama has done some things well as president. The spirit of the characterization is erroneous.

  Semantics? Really? "I disagree with you opinion, therefore I'm labeling your claim an outright lie"? Wow.

I find your opinion invalid because its premise is untrue. Or a 'false mischaracterization'. If you're going to summarize my posts, get em right, please.

  Which part of my summary do you think was false, that you disagreed with his opinion or that you labeled it an outright lie?

The opinion was based on a false premise, that's the part you have been missing in your 3 post rebuttal semantics counter argument. Or, would you rather advocate the position that Barack Obama hasn't done a single thing well during his presidency.

The whole thing at this point is silly, but there we are. The notion that Barack Obama has not done a single thing well this entire presidency as a supporting point to defending a non-attack on David Patraeus in a thread about Libya isn't a valid opinion.

  You might feel that it's not a valid rebuttal (and you may be right) but that doesn't make the claim any less true.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #504 on: November 05, 2012, 08:49:36 PM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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Even if y want to break pouts down into small pieces what would they be?

I suppose you could just go post by post.   ;D

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #505 on: November 06, 2012, 12:11:55 AM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Apparently Obama can run a good foreign policy since Mitt has already admitted in the debates he will be doing everything just about the same as Obama.

  So you're a big fan of Romney's foreign policy ideas?
Let's just say I am not a fan of Obama's, and Mitt has no less foreign policy experience than Obama had when he was elected, so who knows what he might do...maybe better maybe not, but at least different.  And different seems an acceptable choice to me.  Even he can't say exactly that he would do everything the same...he had not received the briefings that Obama did.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #506 on: November 06, 2012, 12:15:03 AM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Obama said that he gave orders to protect the embassy and employees....his senior staff decided that his orders, as Commander and Chief, were not final, so they changed them.  Does this sound like a President who is respected even in his own administration?
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #507 on: November 06, 2012, 01:10:05 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Do you have a link for that tboots? I hadn't heard that yet, and if its like you say it is, Im not a big fan of it at all.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #508 on: November 06, 2012, 01:27:03 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Obama said that he gave orders to protect the embassy and employees....his senior staff decided that his orders, as Commander and Chief, were not final, so they changed them.  Does this sound like a President who is respected even in his own administration?
If anyone didn't listen to the President, it was the CIA and they haven't been listening to presidents since the Kennedy administration. Can't see how that makes  Obama a bad leader.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #509 on: November 06, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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I wasn't defending his viewpoint (not that I really disagree with it), I was saying that disagreeing with an opinion doesn't make it a lie.

Oh, but that's just your opinion.

Obama said that he gave orders to protect the embassy and employees....his senior staff decided that his orders, as Commander and Chief, were not final, so they changed them.  Does this sound like a President who is respected even in his own administration?

Presidents get defied all the time. They aren't god-emperors. If it's bad, someone gets fired.

Even if y want to break pouts down into small pieces what would they be?

I feel as though if you don't give Obama credit for successfully getting the ACA passed, your standards for running something well are so high as to be in outer space. It looked ugly (and it was ugly), but that's how legislation is. That bill doesn't get passed unless POTUS really puts his shoulder into it and pushes hard.

 

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