Author Topic: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi  (Read 55122 times)

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #465 on: November 02, 2012, 07:13:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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According to retired General and former Vice Chief Of Staff Jack Keene:

-The consulate was irresponsibly (his words) unprotected, and after attacks in Egypt, it should've been less exposed.

-Nobody had their hands tied when they could've stepped in to rescue. No ground troops were available, no air support any closer than North America (there are a variety of reasons they couldn't scramble jets from bases in Africa and Europe). The one support group, a top-secret reserve 24 hrs force kept on hand for just such an occasion was deployed, but by the time they got to Italy before a final attack in Benghazi, both attacks were finished.

So contrary to other reports out there, no fighters were available for a flyover. No ground troops were available. What resources were available, were deployed, but they were an ocean away. According to Jack Keene, 'That's what Joe Liberman and his committee will find out next month when they get the field reports and the surveillance tape.'
If Romney was given this intel after the second debate, it no makes sense why he shut his mouth on the subject in the third debate.

Which is pretty much what I have been saying since that time. Its been a dead issue since that third debate and only the extremely staunch detractors of the President from the far right keep bringing it up.

Heck, the Republican candidate for President and most people running for office as Republicans have dropped the subject. Doesn't that tell people still trying to make this an issue anything?
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #466 on: November 02, 2012, 07:17:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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After the third debate foriegn policy was not a strength for Romney, he agrees with Obama on so many issues.   He won the first debate hands down but he lost the third badly.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #467 on: November 04, 2012, 02:32:26 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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This article suggests a lot of things that I suspected:

Quote
The revelations of the past few days have also confirmed what many of us in the media figured from the beginning: that far from being a benign diplomatic mission, Benghazi was a hub for American spies. Ambassador Chris Stevens, we were told, was in town to open a “cultural center.” Yep. The heavy CIA presence--23 of 30 American officials evacuated from the city were reportedly there working for the CIA under diplomatic cover--explains a lot. Clinton's reluctance to take the fall for the Agency; the White House mismanagement of the messaging (don’t want to throw the CIA’s secret squirrel stuff out there); the fact, that, according to White House sources, the intelligence community did present them with the suggestion that the attacks were a spontaneous demonstration against an anti-Muslim film — an apparent move to deflect blame away from the agency’s failure to see the assault coming.

It also criticizes the media for helping to confuse what happened by agreeing with a CIA request that two former Navy Seals who were killed not be identified as working for the CIA and suggests that CIA director David Petraeus is someone whose job should be in jeopardy over this.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 10:20:16 AM by LooseCannon »
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #468 on: November 05, 2012, 10:04:17 AM »

Offline Brendan

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The facts on the ground are getting murkier, not clearer. Implies to me that the administration is delaying and misdirecting, from which I conclude: actual facts will be bad press, and president prefers to defend the cover up later, than be straight about facts now.

It's lose/lose PR wise:
1. There were requests for more security that were denied, and then there weren't assets in place to protect our Ambassador. (This will play as incompetence.)

2. There were assets in place, but we didn't deploy them. (This will play as cowardly.)

So rather than take the hit, BHO and his media cronies are sitting on the story. After the election (win or lose) expect some Friday night dumps of data clearing up things. Also expect someone to take the fall below the one.

Remember the context here is BHO doing what he criticized - going into a conflict we didn't have a reason to be in, celebrating early "we came, we saw, Ghaddafi died" said his Sec State, then half you know what-ing the follow through. That context + not getting more assets in place and/or not using what was there + timing relative to election + obvious attempts to spin = this will be ugly before its over. But like I said, he's willing to defer the ugliness until such time as he thinks he can get through it.

Two columnists I like chimed in over the weekend with their own take:
VDH and Mark Steyn.

Also wonder if the Benghazi affair influenced these guys: http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/11/04/breaking-gen-tommy-franks-gen-henry-shelton-among-500-american-warriors-to-run-full-page-ad-endorsing-mitt-romney-for-president/

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #469 on: November 05, 2012, 10:16:27 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Brendan I think your conclusions are not in line with most recent reports.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #470 on: November 05, 2012, 12:53:29 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Brendan I think your conclusions are not in line with most recent reports.
You may or may not be correct, IP, however the scuttlebut that I am hearing is that lots of people do buy into that train of thought and are coming to the same conclusion.  Whether or not Obama wins, this can not be good for him image and his credibility.  It will keep coming up like the birther thing. 
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #471 on: November 05, 2012, 01:19:17 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #472 on: November 05, 2012, 01:34:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Why did the RNC and Romney get silent after the 2nd presidential debate about the Libya situation?

Maybe it has something to do with the person being completely at fault being Petraeus, a person who is decidedly Republican and looked at as a future power in the party.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #473 on: November 05, 2012, 01:35:32 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Brendan I think your conclusions are not in line with most recent reports.
You may or may not be correct, IP, however the scuttlebut that I am hearing is that lots of people do buy into that train of thought and are coming to the same conclusion.  Whether or not Obama wins, this can not be good for him image and his credibility.  It will keep coming up like the birther thing.

You are basically calling me an unserious crack pot by comparing me to a birther. No matter what the broader context:  involvement in war was by choice, without congressional support, follow through was lacking creating huge security void, local staff asked for more security and didn't get it, Ambassador ends up dead. The specifics of what assets were available are still his responsibility. Buck stops there.

He wanted credit for the bin laden hit - he gets blame for this. I think the specific details will be less favorable then right now, you guys disagree - but even in a generous read for the prez, he'll look incompetent.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #474 on: November 05, 2012, 01:38:36 PM »

Offline Brendan

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Why did the RNC and Romney get silent after the 2nd presidential debate about the Libya situation?

Maybe it has something to do with the person being completely at fault being Petraeus, a person who is decidedly Republican and looked at as a future power in the party.
Oh yes. I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy. But since Obama appointed him to lead CIA, he still bears culpability. And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign. Also why is he republican? He's a distinctly American hero, the man who led Iraq back from the brink. Who was sent to cleanup in Afghanistan without real domestic support, and the man who should of been Chair of JCoS, but took the thankless lead on CIA when asked by a dem admin. Has ever came out as a republican?

As to why RNC and Romney backed off:
1. Maybe its just a mistake
2. Maybe they polled the issue and people didn't like them playing politics with national security or found the effect was already there with the people it would work with
3. Maybe they felt the social media and MSM coverage were good enough
4. Maybe you are right.

Who knows. Them not pressing an issue doesn't mean they've been briefed and found out Obama is perfect.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #475 on: November 05, 2012, 01:44:38 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Why did the RNC and Romney get silent after the 2nd presidential debate about the Libya situation?

Maybe it has something to do with the person being completely at fault being Petraeus, a person who is decidedly Republican and looked at as a future power in the party.
Oh yes. I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy. But since Obama appointed him to lead CIA, he still bears culpability. And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign. Also why is he republican? He's a distinctly American hero, the man who led Iraq back from the brink. Who was sent to cleanup in Afghanistan without real domestic support, and the man who should of been Chair of JCoS, but took the thankless lead on CIA when asked by a dem admin. Has ever came out as a republican?
1. He's a registered Republican

2. When was the last time a military general entering politics come out as a Democrat?

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #476 on: November 05, 2012, 01:45:03 PM »

Online Fafnir

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2. When was the last time a military general entering politics come out as a Democrat?
Clark.

Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #477 on: November 05, 2012, 01:46:21 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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If it ends up being as credible as birther stuff, there's really nothing you can do to change people's minds.

It will be really interesting if this results in Petraeus being ousted as CIA director because of the agency's malfeasance and he runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2016, as some people want.
Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

Why did the RNC and Romney get silent after the 2nd presidential debate about the Libya situation?

Maybe it has something to do with the person being completely at fault being Petraeus, a person who is decidedly Republican and looked at as a future power in the party.
Oh yes. I'm sure Obama admin would love to paint DP as the fall guy. But since Obama appointed him to lead CIA, he still bears culpability. And DP unlike Obama has actually done something well besides run a campaign. Also why is he republican? He's a distinctly American hero, the man who led Iraq back from the brink. Who was sent to cleanup in Afghanistan without real domestic support, and the man who should of been Chair of JCoS, but took the thankless lead on CIA when asked by a dem admin. Has ever came out as a republican?

I really disagree with all that, aside from David Petraeus being an American hero, and not being an especially partisan politician type. Everything else there strikes me as baseless speculation and outright false characterizations.

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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #478 on: November 05, 2012, 01:54:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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2. When was the last time a military general entering politics come out as a Democrat?
Clark.
Well, there's always the exception. Still. Most military leaders come out as Republicans if they go into politics. And Patraeus is a registered Republican.
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Re: US official dies in Libya consulate attack in Benghazi
« Reply #479 on: November 05, 2012, 02:50:38 PM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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Brendan I think your conclusions are not in line with most recent reports.
You may or may not be correct, IP, however the scuttlebut that I am hearing is that lots of people do buy into that train of thought and are coming to the same conclusion.  Whether or not Obama wins, this can not be good for him image and his credibility.  It will keep coming up like the birther thing.

You are basically calling me an unserious crack pot by comparing me to a birther. No matter what the broader context:  involvement in war was by choice, without congressional support, follow through was lacking creating huge security void, local staff asked for more security and didn't get it, Ambassador ends up dead. The specifics of what assets were available are still his responsibility. Buck stops there.

He wanted credit for the bin laden hit - he gets blame for this. I think the specific details will be less favorable then right now, you guys disagree - but even in a generous read for the prez, he'll look incompetent.

So then you give him credit for Bin Laden?

I actually agree with some of your thoughts, specifically; "involvement in war was by choice, without congressional support, follow through was lacking creating huge security void, local staff asked for more security and didn't get it, Ambassador ends up dead. The specifics of what assets were available are still his responsibility. Buck stops there."  I think Obama would partially agree with you too.  I have a problem with the huge leap you take from there.  Things like this are ugly, I dont think that means the original Libya action was a mistake or that there is some huge conspiracy afoot.  There is a lot of 'ugliness' in the history of American foreign policy.

 

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