Author Topic: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics  (Read 32843 times)

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Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2012, 12:23:06 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I am as hopeful for Kris Joseph as anyone.

Nonetheless, it may provide some perspective to look at this list, of every player picked 51st in the draft since 1989:

Jon Diebler
Magnum Rolle
Jack McClinton
Shan Foster
JamesOn Curry
Cheikh Samb
Robert Whaley
Christian Drejer
Kyle Korver
Marcus Taylor
Andre Hutson
Igor Rakocevic
Antwain Smith
Corey Brewer (Oklahoma, not Florida)
Dejuan Wheat
Chris Robinson
Dejan Bodiroga
Lawrence Funderburke
Spencer Dunkley
Tim Burroughs
Zan Tabak
Mike Morrison

All I have to say is "yikes."

Rakocevic and Bodiroga and legends of Serbian basketball. Plus, Korver isn't half bad, although your argument doesn't say nothing.. Isaiah Thomas was selected 60th and he's really good. Anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4

Bodiroga was great, but he was only drafted so low because everyone knew that he was almost certainly never going to play in the NBA. And he didn't. So, that pick was a zero in terms of helping the team who drafted him.

My point was just that if you look at the history here, you'd predict that Joseph has almost no chance of ever making an NBA roster. Even the one guy who is a rotation player (Korver) is not any better than Barnes.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #121 on: September 09, 2012, 12:26:27 PM »

Offline Cman

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Roy,

You know I respect you a lot.  But, I strongly disagree with you here.  BTW, I never said that Efficiency Rating is "the only valid method of evaluating a player."  It is a useful tool that should not be discounted however.

We really do NOT know IF Jeff Green will have a better year than Matt Barnes.  We do KNOW that he will be vastly better paid though.  I think that most would agree that Matt is a better defender than Jeff.  We don't know how well Green will come back from his surgery.  He was less than overwhelming with us two years ago (although briefly).

This summary seems to paint Barnes as a very solid SF defender and as a fighter at the PF (just too weak).  He would be a huge asset versus the Heat in trying to at least guard LBJ on the perimeter and I think would do a fine job vs. Wade.  He is a proven defender, unlike the horrifically overpaid Jeff Green.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matt-Barnes-1592/

And it is not like he is 36 or 37.

Smitty77

Yes, but the point remains that no one really wants him. So he can't be all that good. He's on the downside of his career -- he peaked while playing with Golden State and Phoenix, which maybe says something about the type of system in which he needs to play.

I agree that there is a definite role for him to play -- I would love to see him get under LBJ's skin, and become a 'Bron Stopper similar to how Ruben Patterson styled his career as Kobe Stopper.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #122 on: September 09, 2012, 12:29:30 PM »

Online Roy H.

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think that most would agree that Matt is a better defender than Jeff.

I'm not sure whether most would agree with that or not.  Green isn't much of a defender at PF, but he's average-to-above-average at SF (and stats rate him higher than that).  Is Barnes still at that level?  He certainly used to be, but I'm not sure that he is now.  I'd say he's about average at defense against mostly backups.

He would be a huge asset versus the Heat in trying to at least guard LBJ on the perimeter and I think would do a fine job vs. Wade.[/quote]

He would be another body to throw against Lebron, which is why I'd be fine signing him.  However, the defense he'd play would probably be below Pietrus' level, and certainly no better than third string. 

I have no confidence that he could defend Wade, still one of the best SGs in the league.  Barnes is just too slow.

Quote
He is a proven defender, unlike the horrifically overpaid Jeff Green.

Again, that's debatable.  The scouting report you provided was from 2008.  Barnes might not be 36, but he is 32, which is pretty old, especially for a perimeter player.

You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?


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Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #123 on: September 09, 2012, 12:29:53 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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I have no idea why most teams would not want an 11.50 Efficiency Rated player coming off their bench.  How many teams have one or more than one player with that high of a rating coming off their benches?

And he comes cheap!

Smitty77 

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2012, 12:38:16 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Roy,

I didn't mean to "slip" your question.  I imagine that the reason why he is being offered so little is due to his attitude.  (I think that has has proven to be a good teammate, but a hated rival.  LA is looking to perhaps give the recently resigned Devin Ebanks more playing time to develop.)  That would NOT be a problem on a team with KG on it.  He would have to walk the line on KG's team.  I just stumbled on this which is like affecting his ability to get a good deal:

"Barnes was arrested by Manhattan Beach back in July for a traffic violation and for resisting arrest."

The question I would like to ask of you is Jeff Green going to still be able to defend like he did at OKC??  He really did not impress me for us in the playoffs 2 years ago at all!!

As for Pietrus, he tried hard on defense for us, but he was beyond terrible on offense.  I, once again, was not impressed with Pietrus's overall defense.  I was impressed with his effort.

I think we would get similar effort, but better results on defense, and better offense from Barnes compared to the French Connection.

Smitty77

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #125 on: September 09, 2012, 01:18:49 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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I wouldn't mind signing Barnes because it then gives you the option of packaging some young players like Bradley and Green for possibly a Josh Smith or another good big man type player , but still leaves you with good depth with Barnes being able to step in as a backup SF and Terry and Lee locking up the PG/SG mins that we would lose if we traded Bradley.




Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #126 on: September 09, 2012, 01:19:01 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Matt Barnes would be a great signing for a third string SF.

I am kind of shocked he'd consider coming here though with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green already in place at his position. He should find himself a better home. Barnes should go somewhere where he can still play regular minutes.

He'll never find that place because he's not any good anymore.

I thought they were saving the BAE for a potential big.

Yes I agree, Celtics should use this last spot for a CENTER

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2012, 02:30:16 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I have no idea why most teams would not want an 11.50 Efficiency Rated player coming off their bench.  How many teams have one or more than one player with that high of a rating coming off their benches?

And he comes cheap!

Smitty77

Actually, Barnes' PER last year was 15.5, according to basketball reference and ESPN.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

What's more, his per-36 stats are unchanged over the last 5-6 years. All the evidence suggests that he has not declined at all. Not one bit.

I'm with you, Smitty. I don't get the objection to him, at a low price and as a 3rd stringer.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2012, 03:22:28 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?

This is a very weak line of argument. Players' contracts are frequently only loosely related to their current abilities.

As just one example, if I recall correctly you yourself argued after the Lee signing that Ray Allen is better than Courtney Lee right now. So, why is Allen getting paid less?

And is Kris Humphries better than Kevin Garnett? They were both free agent PFs, and Humphries will make more next year.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #129 on: September 09, 2012, 03:59:58 PM »

Offline Who

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I thought Matt Barnes had the two best years of his career with the LA Lakers these past two years. I don't think he is on the downside of his career at all. That is why I have been surprised Barnes hasn't been getting more attention. Because he has been playing so well.

I would consider him a middle of the pack backup SF meaning there are close to 40-45 forwards who are better than Barnes at that SF position. Too streaky offensively (dodgy jumper) and not good enough defensively (below average, sub-par quickness) to rank higher than that despite his brilliant rebounding.

Still, that's pretty good for a third stringer and I think Matt Barnes would be a nice insurance for Jeff Green as Green returns from a year-long absence due to heart surgery.

The Celtics backcourt is very small with Rondo, Terry and Bradley. Even Courtney Lee, he is a slightly undersized SG too (no bulk). If for some reason Pierce or Green missed some time, it would leave the Celtics very undersized on the perimeter. It would be nice for Doc to have another perimeter player with solid size (6-8, 225) as insurance. Someone with a different skill-set. Give Doc more flexibility off the bench. 

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #130 on: September 09, 2012, 04:26:33 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22011&conf=OVERALL&position=2&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Barnes is NOT a below average defender either!

Smitty77

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #131 on: September 09, 2012, 04:27:16 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Boris,

Thanks for the support.  I was just looking at Eff. Ratings on nba.com.

Smitty77

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2012, 04:39:43 PM »

Online Roy H.

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You slipped my question, though.  If Barnes is as good as, or better than, guys like Green and Lee, why is he getting a minimum contract, while those guys are earning a combined $55 million+?

This is a very weak line of argument. Players' contracts are frequently only loosely related to their current abilities.

As just one example, if I recall correctly you yourself argued after the Lee signing that Ray Allen is better than Courtney Lee right now. So, why is Allen getting paid less?

And is Kris Humphries better than Kevin Garnett? They were both free agent PFs, and Humphries will make more next year.

You think Matt Barnes is as good as Courtney Lee and Jeff Green?  Why are you calling him a third stringer, then?

Either you and Smitty are wrong about how good Barnes is, or every NBA GM is. 


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Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #133 on: September 09, 2012, 04:41:26 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Who,

There are "maybe" 23 true small forwards with higher regular season efficiency ratings from last year!!

So, efficiency rankings suggest that Barnes could / should start for seven teams?  Do you buy that?


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Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #134 on: September 09, 2012, 05:06:43 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Ron Artest has major mental issues and is a liability on offense more often then not, yet LA started him over Barnes. What dies that tell you about Barnes' game and mental state?

Would you say Artest is better then Jeff Green, because I sure as hell wouldn't.

Please.don't compare the trash that is Matt Barnes to Jeff Green.  Barnes is an old SF who can play decent defense and chuck up threes, that's it. Green is a decent defender and a versatile scorer whos athletic and can score from nearly anywhere on the court.  Barnes is at best Mikeal Pietrus with a terrible attitude, nothing more.