Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics

[RyNye]

I think its a very different situation.  Lin was buried on a couple rosters, but teams knew he had the talent.  Christmas just hasn't been that impressive.   

Actually, the situations are almost exactly the same. Both Lin and Christmas have been consistently statistically above average or very good, but since they don't "look" good, they don't get the roster spots. Even in this era of statistical analysis and Chris Broussard, 90% of the decisions made by scouts and GMs and coaches is based off of the eye test, which is very inconsistent and unreliable. If you look at their numbers, both Lin and Christmas were always very efficient and good players. Lin just got lucky by ending up on a team that was desperate for a point guard - the Knicks had no idea he would be as good as he was. Hopefully, the Celtics will take a chance with Christmas - he has real talent.

The moral of the story is that you can't just rely on the eye test to judge talent. Humans are too biased and inconsistent.

[hpantazo]

I think its a very different situation.  Lin was buried on a couple rosters, but teams knew he had the talent.  Christmas just hasn't been that impressive.   

Actually, the situations are almost exactly the same. Both Lin and Christmas have been consistently statistically above average or very good, but since they don't "look" good, they don't get the roster spots. Even in this era of statistical analysis and Chris Broussard, 90% of the decisions made by scouts and GMs and coaches is based off of the eye test, which is very inconsistent and unreliable. If you look at their numbers, both Lin and Christmas were always very efficient and good players. Lin just got lucky by ending up on a team that was desperate for a point guard - the Knicks had no idea he would be as good as he was. Hopefully, the Celtics will take a chance with Christmas - he has real talent.

The moral of the story is that you can't just rely on the eye test to judge talent. Humans are too biased and inconsistent.

I agree, Lin was cut from a few teams that needed a player like him, and he was about to be cut from the knicks according to his coach until he exploded. The only reason he got a chance is because they had no one else to play pg at the moment and were desperate, not because they thought he had the talent.

[RyNye]

I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.

The numbers disagree with you.

Matt Barnes from 5 years ago (on the Golden State Warriors), wasn't a good scorer, but was a great passer and rebounder and an above average defender. Matt Barnes was terrible his first 4 years in the league, but if you look at his numbers, for 5 of the past 6 years he has been consistently above average (and improving).

Just from this last season:

His TS% was 55% (average is around 51 or 52). Not great at 3s, but great at 2s (52% at 2s, average is around 48). His PPS was above average at 1.27. Still a great rebounder (11.5 per 48 min, versus the average at his position of 7.5), good passer (4.2 assists per 48 min, versus average of 3.6), and twice as many blocks as the average for his playing time. He doesn't turn the ball over, though he isn't a great free throw shooter and fouls too much.

(BTW, I use the stats per 48 min because it is the only way you can reliably compare a players numbers. It is idiotic to look at someone's numbers without correcting for how much they play.)

So he's no superstar, but he is a solid role player. Heck, from the numbers he is better than many starters on the league's more mediocre teams, which is a good asset to have coming off the bench.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.

The numbers disagree with you.

Matt Barnes from 5 years ago (on the Golden State Warriors), wasn't a good scorer, but was a great passer and rebounder and an above average defender. Matt Barnes was terrible his first 4 years in the league, but if you look at his numbers, for 5 of the past 6 years he has been consistently above average (and improving).

Just from this last season:

His TS% was 55% (average is around 51 or 52). Not great at 3s, but great at 2s (52% at 2s, average is around 48). His PPS was above average at 1.27. Still a great rebounder (11.5 per 48 min, versus the average at his position of 7.5), good passer (4.2 assists per 48 min, versus average of 3.6), and twice as many blocks as the average for his playing time. He doesn't turn the ball over, though he isn't a great free throw shooter and fouls too much.

(BTW, I use the stats per 48 min because it is the only way you can reliably compare a players numbers. It is idiotic to look at someone's numbers without correcting for how much they play.)

So he's no superstar, but he is a solid role player. Heck, from the numbers he is better than many starters on the league's more mediocre teams, which is a good asset to have coming off the bench.

Now why would you go through the trouble to bring people stats like that? Don't you know he is a terrible player?? I mean he is HORRIBLE!

Seriously though, people mistake attitude with play must be, because he is a solid player!

[BostonNative]

boy he sure WAS a SOLID player. How many "solid" players do we need? Its time to focus on getting great players who can contribute in the long run. Idk who he once was what is Matt Barnes today?

Where will he fit? Are we getting rid of joseph to fit Barnes in? Id rather take my chance on a kid who has everything to prove than another old head who has already seen it all and just playing for the hell of it.

[Celtics4ever]

He plays chippy and sometimes those guys are nice to toss at a LeBron type.   Five experienced fouls and a guy willing to do some dirty deeds worth a look to see if he has anything left in the tank.   If not let him walk but if he does.....

[vjcsmoke]

I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

The problem with this generalization is that the Celtics and Danny Ainge have consistently gottent good value in the 2nd round, I mean look at Big Baby, Leon Powe, Ryan Gomes etc.  These guys were not superstars but they offered solid value for us when healthy.

You can pretty much conclude right now that he will not see the floor regardless of the injury situation. If green or Pierce go down we will just go very small and have Lee probably play there or get creative some other way. Joseph, I feel I can say with complete confidence would not step on the court during the playoffs. At least with Barnes you have a veteran presence who can rebound, defend and hit the occasional 3. He's not that old either and im not saying he would get those minutes at the 3 but he allows you to be more flexible in the playoffs if there is an injury or foul trouble where I just don't say Doc throwing joseph out there even if he were to dress

That being said, I see nothing wrong with letting Joseph develop with the Maine Redclaws where he will get more playing time and have a chance to be coached up.  When he is seen as ready to contribute with the 'big club' then he can be recalled as needed.  I'm sure injuries, especially on an older team, may strike and we can bring him up down the road when he is ready.

As far as Joseph's ability to step up.  He's a rookie, nobody expects that out of him right now.

I also like the idea of adding Barnes to the roster.  He's likely our 11-15th player, a 3rd string backup SF.  And he adds some rebounding and toughness to the roster.  Considering his role, I don't see us having much to lose at the vet min.  I don't see him worth a BAE though.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

boy he sure WAS a SOLID player. How many "solid" players do we need? Its time to focus on getting great players who can contribute in the long run. Idk who he once was what is Matt Barnes today?

Where will he fit? Are we getting rid of joseph to fit Barnes in? Id rather take my chance on a kid who has everything to prove than another old head who has already seen it all and just playing for the hell of it.

How is it that he "WAS" a solid player when someone just posted his stats from last season?

Seeing that he is known to be a good defender, I think he will fit in nicely with a DEFENSE FIRST team.

We need as many solid players as we can get because we don't have any money to do better!!!!! I'm guessing you think it's easy to put together a team full of stars? How many times have injuries derailed this team... what, like every season since 08? Prepare for the unexpected (or this pattern the Cs have been in with injuries)! We already have two rookies to get up to speed... sure we can have more (hopefully the 15 spot will go to KJ or Xmas), but why not get guys you know what they bring to the table already?

If there were more solid players behind PP then we could stand pat (maybe we still will)... there is ONLY Jeff Green (maybe, but not ideally, Lee)!

So, you would rather have an unproven rookie be the last line if PP and/or Jeff go down, in the playoffs, than an experienced winner (not just a bench warmer who went along for the ride like that guy in SL that has two rings)? A second rounder at that?!!

Barnes may not be anything to brag about but he is PROVEN (with quite a few years under his belt), to be a good NBA player!

I like rookies a lot (at least the ones we pick), I hope they get a chance, but you have to pass on someone if you have a chance to get a solid player instead!

With all that said, if Kris is as good as you think he is (I like him, think he has potential), then he can earn that last spot because Barnes would only be our 14th player. If he doesn't beat Xmas, that's on him, not b/c we got Barnes!

This Barnes stuff is all speculation and pulling things together that may have nothing to do with each other (the tweet)... so this may all be moot...

I go wild over any player we have LOL... I was still holding out hope for 3J (I <3 Moore)... doesn't mean I wasn't hoping we got CLee instead! I'm still sad about Quackity being shipped out but it was for the good of the team (hopefully)!

[kozlodoev]

I'm not even sure I'd want the version of Matt Barnes from 5 years ago. In his prime, he was mediocre in everything (except hacking at people), and didn't have a real position. Please stay away.

The numbers disagree with you.

Matt Barnes from 5 years ago (on the Golden State Warriors), wasn't a good scorer, but was a great passer and rebounder and an above average defender. Matt Barnes was terrible his first 4 years in the league, but if you look at his numbers, for 5 of the past 6 years he has been consistently above average (and improving).

Just from this last season:

His TS% was 55% (average is around 51 or 52). Not great at 3s, but great at 2s (52% at 2s, average is around 48). His PPS was above average at 1.27. Still a great rebounder (11.5 per 48 min, versus the average at his position of 7.5), good passer (4.2 assists per 48 min, versus average of 3.6), and twice as many blocks as the average for his playing time. He doesn't turn the ball over, though he isn't a great free throw shooter and fouls too much.

(BTW, I use the stats per 48 min because it is the only way you can reliably compare a players numbers. It is idiotic to look at someone's numbers without correcting for how much they play.)

So he's no superstar, but he is a solid role player. Heck, from the numbers he is better than many starters on the league's more mediocre teams, which is a good asset to have coming off the bench.

For a person who's asked to shoot threes and play perimeter defense, I'd say that rebounding rate and 2 pt shooting percentage is not the greatest resume.

[kozlodoev]

He plays chippy and sometimes those guys are nice to toss at a LeBron type.   Five experienced fouls and a guy willing to do some dirty deeds worth a look to see if he has anything left in the tank.   If not let him walk but if he does.....

Five experienced fouls later and we've handed 10 points to the opposition on a platter. Good luck with that.

[fitzhickey]

No thanks
Seems like a dodgy bloke, and his personality is questionable at best.
Don't want him in green

[chambers]

I have no problem cheering for a guy like Barnes.  They are the type of guys you hate to play against, but love to have on your own team.

My concerns are that 1. I never felt he was as good as other people suggested and 2. He is older now, and just may not have a whole lot left to give.

I also still question whether he would actually come to Boston.  Regardless of the battle for minutes and lack of money, I just always took him for someone who preferred the warm weather teams.
 
But, if he can still play, he does give a veteran presence and toughness, that is very nice to have deep on the bench.  He is not someone I would feel that comfortable relying on, but as a third stringer, it is hard to do much better.

You're 100% right.
Just like KG, Barnes is the kinda guy you want on your team, causing havoc and punking people left and right-basically getting inside everybody's head and making them take their concentration away from the game at hand.

I also question whether he's got much left. How old is he now? What's his injury status?

[Celtics4ever]

Five experienced fouls later and we've handed 10 points to the opposition on a platter. Good luck with that.

Let's see he shoots .74% from the line in the playoffs and .65% during the conference finals for his career.   That is not ten points any way you look at it, Koz. 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lebron_james/

Weird that his average dips ten points in the conference finals though.

[Cman]

seven pages on Matt Barnes, potentially the #15 player on the roster? yep, it's the offseason allright...
 

[Smitty77]

I am surprised that we are wondering if Matt Barnes has anything left when he averaged about 8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2 assists, and about 1 block and 1 rebound in just over 20 minutes per games for the Lakers last year!!

That does NOT sound like a 15th man to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

He had an 11.50 Efficiency Rating for the regular season.

12th-15th man??  I know that we all see through green glasses, but come on.  We are deep, but not NEARLY that deep!

Smitty77