Author Topic: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics  (Read 38084 times)

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Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #105 on: September 08, 2012, 04:01:21 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Barnes had almost twice the regular season Efficiency Rating as did our vaunted Pietrus.  Pietrus was a 6.3 for the regular season.

As for Marquis, he was ranked 386th in the for the regular season at a 3.7 Efficiency Rating.

Before someone brings up Sasha, he was 406th in Efficiency Rating at 3.2:-))))

Smitty77

P.S.  We can all be more objective than is what is being shown in this thread for the most part.  Yes, I understand people hating Barnes' game from an opponent's viewpoint, but I beat his teammates LOVE him.  An appropriate analogy on this would be KG.  Not in terms of talent, but in terms of fiesty players that are despised by their opponents and fans from other teams.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #106 on: September 08, 2012, 04:37:50 PM »

Offline gar

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Would love to see Joseph get a chance. He has way more upside and could be a solid roster player in the NBA.

Not sure why he is rated so low; have read all the scouting reports; but saw a different player in summer league.

More solid than Christmas; but like Christmas' defensive energy more than both Barnes and Joseph.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #107 on: September 08, 2012, 05:53:25 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I am as hopeful for Kris Joseph as anyone.

Nonetheless, it may provide some perspective to look at this list, of every player picked 51st in the draft since 1989:

Jon Diebler
Magnum Rolle
Jack McClinton
Shan Foster
JamesOn Curry
Cheikh Samb
Robert Whaley
Christian Drejer
Kyle Korver
Marcus Taylor
Andre Hutson
Igor Rakocevic
Antwain Smith
Corey Brewer (Oklahoma, not Florida)
Dejuan Wheat
Chris Robinson
Dejan Bodiroga
Lawrence Funderburke
Spencer Dunkley
Tim Burroughs
Zan Tabak
Mike Morrison

All I have to say is "yikes."

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #108 on: September 08, 2012, 06:29:24 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Can people stop talking about rookies and "upside"?

Everyone in the D-League has "upside". I have upside.

It's got to be the stupidest reason to give to keep someone. Every rookie has upside that's why he is a rookie. As pointed out our second round picks have pretty much turned out to be terrible NBA players if they have even made it to the league.


Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #109 on: September 08, 2012, 06:35:13 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I just don't get the fascination with keeping Joseph. The percentages of him turning into an average player are stacked against him? Are people just hoping we hit the lottery and get that 1 in a million good second round guy?

The problem with this generalization is that the Celtics and Danny Ainge have consistently gottent good value in the 2nd round, I mean look at Big Baby, Leon Powe, Ryan Gomes etc.  These guys were not superstars but they offered solid value for us when healthy.

Quote
You can pretty much conclude right now that he will not see the floor regardless of the injury situation. If green or Pierce go down we will just go very small and have Lee probably play there or get creative some other way. Joseph, I feel I can say with complete confidence would not step on the court during the playoffs. At least with Barnes you have a veteran presence who can rebound, defend and hit the occasional 3. He's not that old either and im not saying he would get those minutes at the 3 but he allows you to be more flexible in the playoffs if there is an injury or foul trouble where I just don't say Doc throwing joseph out there even if he were to dress

That being said, I see nothing wrong with letting Joseph develop with the Maine Redclaws where he will get more playing time and have a chance to be coached up.  When he is seen as ready to contribute with the 'big club' then he can be recalled as needed.  I'm sure injuries, especially on an older team, may strike and we can bring him up down the road when he is ready.

As far as Joseph's ability to step up.  He's a rookie, nobody expects that out of him right now.

I also like the idea of adding Barnes to the roster.  He's likely our 11-15th player, a 3rd string backup SF.  And he adds some rebounding and toughness to the roster.  Considering his role, I don't see us having much to lose at the vet min.  I don't see him worth a BAE though.

I see what you are saying but still only Baby really turned out to be anything and people here don't even like his game. Powe isn't in the league anymore is he? Ryan Gomes showed some flashes but I'm pretty sure at this point he's going to be bouncing around from team to team if he stays in the league at the min.

I don't know Joseph but unless Danny, Doc etc. are extremely high on him I don't see the point of sending him to the D-league when we need to win now. We also have a decent balance of youth and veterans on this team now that it's not like we are risking much by dropping a second rounder for a proven veteran.

I don't want to sign him for the BAE but over the last few years I think he is a better vet min pick up than Quis, Pietrus, Sasha, Dooling, Wafer, Finley, etc.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #110 on: September 08, 2012, 09:31:13 PM »

Offline relja

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I am as hopeful for Kris Joseph as anyone.

Nonetheless, it may provide some perspective to look at this list, of every player picked 51st in the draft since 1989:

Jon Diebler
Magnum Rolle
Jack McClinton
Shan Foster
JamesOn Curry
Cheikh Samb
Robert Whaley
Christian Drejer
Kyle Korver
Marcus Taylor
Andre Hutson
Igor Rakocevic
Antwain Smith
Corey Brewer (Oklahoma, not Florida)
Dejuan Wheat
Chris Robinson
Dejan Bodiroga
Lawrence Funderburke
Spencer Dunkley
Tim Burroughs
Zan Tabak
Mike Morrison

All I have to say is "yikes."

Rakocevic and Bodiroga and legends of Serbian basketball. Plus, Korver isn't half bad, although your argument doesn't say nothing.. Isaiah Thomas was selected 60th and he's really good. Anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQEzmPKdqt4
When you lose, the easy part is to see who gives up. Giving up is very simple. You basically take your stuff and walk away. To continue to work and to continue to compete is one of the most difficult things, especially when you really don't have anything - KG

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #111 on: September 08, 2012, 09:44:30 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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I thought Kris Joseph was paid lower than the vet min? And that there's practically no reason to get rid of him as we have one roster spot left?

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #112 on: September 08, 2012, 09:54:42 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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No thanks...

We are already way too deep in the 6'1" - 6'8" category with:

* Rondo
* Dooling
* Terry
* Lee
* Bradley
* Pierce
* Green
* Joseph

Considering how stacked our backcourt is, we are already going to struggle to find minutes for everyone once Bradley comes back.  If we get injuries to Perce or Green, then Lee and Joseph can both play minutes at the SF spot.

I don't see the point in signing any other < 6'10 players unless:

1. They are versatile enough to play multiple positions
2. They are Ben Wallace

On paper Pietrus may be less 'efficient' then Barnes but he can play SG or SF equally well on both offense and defense, he is a good locker room guy, and he has the athleticism to run the break in what I think is going to be a high octane offense this season.

Same can be said for Marquis, who's a great locker room guy and as versatile as a swiss army knife.  Quis is a good ball handler, a smart decision maker on offence, a solid rebounder, a solid passer, and a capable scorer on dribble penetration and from midrange.  He can fill in at every position from PG to SF and he'll never complain abot minutes.

Barnes at this point is his career is purely a defensive presence and a distraction.  Like Pietrus he's an inconsistent shooter, but unlike Pietrus he's not athletic, not a good locker room presence, and not very capapble of playing the SG spot.

The only other guy I can think of that I'd like to see here is Tracy Mcgrady.  Like Quis' he can play every position from PG to SF.  He's got size, good handles, a nice passing game, he's a good rebouder for a SF and he's got a high basketball IQ.

Aside from these three guys, I'd be looking for another big (Birdman, Wallace, etc) with some toughness who's not afraid to bang around inside. 

Last season KG we often had to pull KG back in the game before he got the rest he needed because out bigs weren't able to protect the paint while he was out.  Melo has tons of potential and could be a surprise, but he's unproven and could just as easilly be a flop.  Collins is a mediocre rebounder, will struggle against quicker bigs like Amare and Bosh.  Wilcox and Sullinger are both question marks health wise, and neither is a natural Center.

I don't HATE the idea of signing Barnes because high energy hustle guys that play defense never go astray - but I think thre are others out there who would be more fitting.  Plus out track history with guys that have mental/maturity issues (Big Baby, Delonte, etc) has not been great.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #113 on: September 09, 2012, 12:31:59 AM »

Offline Galeto

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Quote
Yes, I understand people hating Barnes' game from an opponent's viewpoint, but I beat his teammates LOVE him.

Given that he rarely sticks with teams for very long despite being a solid role player, I think this is debatable. 

I really admire the guys who take charges (unless they're obsessed with missing as many jumpers as they can like Big Baby) and give a team an edge when they play on "my team."  Heck, I loved when Posey whacked a player after the whistle even though I shouldn't have.  With Barnes though, I feel like it's different.  There's a difference between wrapping up extra hard and firing balls at players or shoving them because you're angry at a perceived personal slight.  He riles up the opposition more than I think he gets his teammates going.  He's also not good enough defensively to back up his behavior.  He gets in the face of big time scorers and then they dice him up.  It's embarrassing.  A lot of his antics are overreactions and fake tough guy actions.  I can't believe his own teammates would respect that. 

When Posey or Kurt Thomas cross the line, they try to play it off innocently.  Barnes meanwhile calls attention to himself.


Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #114 on: September 09, 2012, 06:35:28 AM »

Offline alley oop

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Barnes didn’t have a problem with Bynum’s thug act against Michael Beasley here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU7RiLERJ-Y

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #115 on: September 09, 2012, 08:32:59 AM »

Offline Cman

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I am surprised that we are wondering if Matt Barnes has anything left when he averaged about 8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 2 assists, and about 1 block and 1 rebound in just over 20 minutes per games for the Lakers last year!!

That does NOT sound like a 15th man to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

He had an 11.50 Efficiency Rating for the regular season.

12th-15th man??  I know that we all see through green glasses, but come on.  We are deep, but not NEARLY that deep!

Smitty77

Okay, maybe by calling him #15 I was exaggerating.
But he would be #11, at best. Again, not something to get too excited about.

Don't get me wrong, I do prefer our #11 to be Barnes, not Kris Joseph. But I stand by my statement that this many pages on Matt Barnes is less about Matt Barnes and more about the doldrums of the off-season.
 :)
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #116 on: September 09, 2012, 09:36:23 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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Signing Barnes wouldn't mean that Kris Joseph doesn't make the team, anyway; it would just mean that he'd have to beat out Dionte Christmas for the last roster spot.  If Joseph is ever going to contribute in the league, he ought to be able to do that. 

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2012, 10:47:54 AM »

Offline Smitty77

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11th on our roster???

Here are the players that had a higher Efficiency Rating than Barnes in the regular season last year on our current roster:

Bass, KG, PP, RR, and Terry.  That is it!!!!

Bradley was a 7.0 for the entire season and we don't yet know how he will come back from his surgeries.

Jeff Green was around a 7 the year before last with us.

Courtney Lee was a 10.2 with Houston, a team NOT hardly as strong as the Lakers.

Wilcox was a 7.8 and we have no idea if he will approach that level again following his surgery.

BTW, Terry was only slightly better at 12.60 on a worse team in Dallas.

Smitty77

P.S. Why do we consistently overrate our own players on this board?:-)))

Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2012, 11:06:51 AM »

Online Roy H.

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11th on our roster???

Here are the players that had a higher Efficiency Rating than Barnes in the regular season last year on our current roster:

Bass, KG, PP, RR, and Terry.  That is it!!!!

Bradley was a 7.0 for the entire season and we don't yet know how he will come back from his surgeries.

Jeff Green was around a 7 the year before last with us.

Courtney Lee was a 10.2 with Houston, a team NOT hardly as strong as the Lakers.

Wilcox was a 7.8 and we have no idea if he will approach that level again following his surgery.

BTW, Terry was only slightly better at 12.60 on a worse team in Dallas.

Smitty77

P.S. Why do we consistently overrate our own players on this board?:-)))

Is Efficiency Rating the only valid method of evaluating a player?

What about age?  Defense?  Team needs?  Potential? 

I'll go with what my eyes tell me, rather than basing my opinion on a stat (and a made-up stat, at that).  I'll put Lee, Green, and Bradley ahead of Barnes any day, and for our team needs, Wilcox and Dooling are ahead of him, too.

Assuming you rate Barnes higher than Lee or Green, why do you think the latter two players were able to earn long-term contracts at significant money, while Barnes is hoping to be picked up for the minimum?

I wouldn't mind Barnes here, as I think he'd be a good third-stringer.  However, with our current roster, I don't think he's more than that.


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Re: Rumour: Barnes may sign with Celtics
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2012, 12:07:40 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Roy,

You know I respect you a lot.  But, I strongly disagree with you here.  BTW, I never said that Efficiency Rating is "the only valid method of evaluating a player."  It is a useful tool that should not be discounted however.

We really do NOT know IF Jeff Green will have a better year than Matt Barnes.  We do KNOW that he will be vastly better paid though.  I think that most would agree that Matt is a better defender than Jeff.  We don't know how well Green will come back from his surgery.  He was less than overwhelming with us two years ago (although briefly).

This summary seems to paint Barnes as a very solid SF defender and as a fighter at the PF (just too weak).  He would be a huge asset versus the Heat in trying to at least guard LBJ on the perimeter and I think would do a fine job vs. Wade.  He is a proven defender, unlike the horrifically overpaid Jeff Green.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matt-Barnes-1592/

And it is not like he is 36 or 37.

Smitty77