Author Topic: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention  (Read 16098 times)

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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2015, 12:10:54 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Is that what Yahoo is saying? That seems surprising to me. Is that how the baseball thing works?

Yes this is how Baseball works.

You draft 21 players... then you can put a guy on the DL and add a 22nd. We'd have to do it the same way in our league or expand to 17 spots just to let guys start the season on the IL, which I don't want to start doing...
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2015, 12:12:41 PM »

Offline eja117

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Oh wow. That is very interesting.

Unless there's an outroar as of the moment I generally plan on just having the one spot in points. Like in baseball i suppose

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2015, 12:32:43 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Question about option 2:  does this mean a team with an injured player can keep 17 at the roster cutdown, or would they have to cut to 16 and then just be able to pick a guy up later?  I'm thinking of scenarios like Paul George last year where the guy already had an injury designation before the season.

Nope. If we use the Yahoo! IL spot teams will have to cut down their rosters to 16 players -- which for a team like LB17, would include Dante Exum. Once on Yahoo, LB17 could then move Exum to the IL and pick up a 17th player.

Thanks - other question, which we may not know yet: how will we handle a player being taken out of the IL spot?  Does Yahoo do it automatically, or would we have to have our own criteria (like within 48 hrs of appearing in a game or losing the INJ label)?  What happens if people don't do it on time?  Maybe it's done manually by commish and their most recent add is dropped?

Here's how it works when a player comes off of IL (though I'm still unclear since there's no official IL to go on, how a player will officially come off of it....):

First week of the season, my player, Isaiah Canaan, goes down with a badly sprained ankle and is listed as INJ. I can put him on the IL and do.

This creates an empty roster spot on my 16-man roster, so I pick up another player, Delonte West.

Miraculously, a day later Delonte is picked up by the Clippers when CP3 goes down with a season-ending injury himself.

Delonte is putting up 15/7/9, and Canaan is eligible to come of the IL (i'm guessing the eligibility comes when his INJ tag goes away.

I have a decision. I can:

(a) Drop someone from my 16 man roster and activate Canaan, or

(b) Keep Canaan on the IL. I can keep him there indefinitely BUT as long as an active player remains on the IL from a previous stint (Canaan in this example) my team is unable to make and FA or waiver wire adds OR make trades.

It becomes a value proposition. I've kept an active player on the DL for weeks in baseball b/c I didn't need to make any roster changes... Other times I've dropped their replacmenet right away to get the INJ player back in my lineup.

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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2015, 09:02:03 AM »

Online mkogav

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2. I'm assuming -- though waiting to hear officially -- that Yahoo! will only allow this spot to be used for injured players, not NA or overseas players (like Dario Saric, who isn't currently in the Yahoo! system unlike last year.

I am assuming will only use this spot for injured players and not ones in the system. Since this will likely be just a handful of stashed players not in Y! each season, who but we can always use the old "Saric is my IR player" strategy and/or note them on the perm site.

3. I'm assuming that use of the IL spot will affect your roster much like the DL for those of us who play fantasy baseball:
-- A player has to officially be injured* to be eligible for the IL slot on your roster.
-- When you move someone to the IL spot, you then have an empty roster spot to which you can add a FA.
-- Once the injured player is removed from the injured list*, you are barred from FA adds, waiver pick ups and trades until you move the now active player to a valid roster spot or drop him.

4. The issue I see is is with the (*) above. Since the NBA doesn't have an official DL like baseball, I'm assuming Yahoo! is going to just go by whether a player has the INJ next to their name. If memory serves correct there will be times that a player is injured but doesn't have that INJ and times when they DO have it but still play.

I think this all ok for the first season of this rule. I assume we will end up tweaking it next summer and the summer after.



Here are at least 3 options:

1. No changes: 16 roster spots just like last year. Season-long injuries = tough decisions.

2. Add 1 Yahoo! IL spot: Use the built-in Yahoo! IL roster spot for injured players -- warts/loopholes and all.

Players like Dante Exum could be moved to this spot on Day 1 allowing LB17 to add a 17th player. Players like Russell Westbrook who a game with a fractured face (but only one game b/c he's Russell-freakin'-Westbrook) could go on the IL allowing Gainesville Celtics to add a 17th player and keep that player as long as I keep Westbrook on the IL.

3. Add 1 manual injured/inactive spot: We'd still need to work out the details... but this would be a manually managed roster spot (tracked by teams & the commish) where each team could (based on our discussion/decision) either (a) put an injured player on for the season (b) put an injured player on for some long stretch and/or (c) put a D-League (i.e. James Young last year) or overseas player (i.e. Dario Saric).

We didn't come to any conclusion or even language to vote on a/b/c in this option, so we'd need to hash that out.

I like option 2, with an additional tweak to allow stash players like Saric via proxy or whatever. Option #3 would be a goal for next season perhaps.

Mk

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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2015, 09:07:27 AM »

Offline eja117

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I agree with Utah starting off small is probably best

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2015, 11:06:43 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Just for clarity (not that Yahoo is providing much yet) here's the back and forth with them:

Quote from:  Yahoo!
More info about the IL slot

Stash players on the IL
Once on the IL, a player can stay there for the entire season, even if they return to real-life action.

However, once a player comes off the real-life IL, you won't be able to complete any transactions that involve adding a player to your team until you remove them from your team's IL.

You'll be able to make intra-roster moves (switching players between bench and active), regardless of a player's real-life IL status, as well as drop a player from your roster in order to open up a roster spot to activate the player from the IL. You can also use your bench spots to house injured players.

If you don't have available IL or bench positions, or if your league doesn't allow them, you'll need to drop the injured player from your roster if you want to pick up another player.

Training

Players will be made eligible for the IL position in Yahoo Sports as soon as possible after they are placed there in real life. This may not occur until the morning following the transaction, during our nightly system update.

On game day
A player can be activated from the NBA injured list on the day of a game. If a Fantasy manager places them into their active lineup for that day, they'll receive scoring for the statistics earned by that player.

Team's intention
A team can announce that a player will be placed on the IL. This only indicates the club's intention to place him on the IL. Until the player is actually put on the official NBA IL, he cant be placed into the IL position in Yahoo Sports Fantasy Basketball.

All-Star Game
Several teams announce players will be placed on the IL around the All-Star break. These players are only eligible once that has officially occurred.

Prior to the season
Most actual transactions won't take place until just prior to that particular team's first game of the season. This means that the player will be given IL status following the nightly update after their team plays their first regular-season game

Let us know if you have any further questions.

Stephen
Yahoo Customer Care

and my reply....


Thanks for the reply, but i'm still unclear about how Yahoo will be handling the IL designation. (It's perfectly clear in, say, baseball where MLB has an official Disabled List).

It may be b/c Yahoo! seems to be using the terms IL and Injured List interchangeably -- which is causing some of us some real confusion. For example from the part you sent me (from the Yahoo! rules):

Quote
On game day
A player can be activated from the NBA injured list on the day of a game. If a Fantasy manager places them into their active lineup for that day, they'll receive scoring for the statistics earned by that player.

Team's intention
A team can announce that a player will be placed on the IL. This only indicates the club's intention to place him on the IL. Until the player is actually put on the official NBA IL, he cant be placed into the IL position in Yahoo Sports Fantasy Basketball.

The NBA no longer has an official *INJURED* List -- which is what the IL spot is called in Yahoo! Fantasy Basketball -- having replaced it with an INACTIVE list in 2009 (http://www.nba.com/news/inactive_rules.html).

So my question remains (a) does a player being placed on a NBA team's *INACTIVE* list (regardless of injury) allow them to be placed on the Yahoo! IL (*INJURED* list)? and (b) likewise is a player who has the red INJ label but who is not on his NBA team's *INACTIVE* list, eligible or ineligible for the Yahoo! IL?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:14:15 AM by Gainesville Celtic »
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2015, 11:28:31 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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2. I'm assuming -- though waiting to hear officially -- that Yahoo! will only allow this spot to be used for injured players, not NA or overseas players (like Dario Saric, who isn't currently in the Yahoo! system unlike last year.

I am assuming will only use this spot for injured players and not ones in the system. Since this will likely be just a handful of stashed players not in Y! each season, who but we can always use the old "Saric is my IR player" strategy and/or note them on the perm site.

3. I'm assuming that use of the IL spot will affect your roster much like the DL for those of us who play fantasy baseball:
-- A player has to officially be injured* to be eligible for the IL slot on your roster.
-- When you move someone to the IL spot, you then have an empty roster spot to which you can add a FA.
-- Once the injured player is removed from the injured list*, you are barred from FA adds, waiver pick ups and trades until you move the now active player to a valid roster spot or drop him.

4. The issue I see is is with the (*) above. Since the NBA doesn't have an official DL like baseball, I'm assuming Yahoo! is going to just go by whether a player has the INJ next to their name. If memory serves correct there will be times that a player is injured but doesn't have that INJ and times when they DO have it but still play.

I think this all ok for the first season of this rule. I assume we will end up tweaking it next summer and the summer after.



Here are at least 3 options:

1. No changes: 16 roster spots just like last year. Season-long injuries = tough decisions.

2. Add 1 Yahoo! IL spot: Use the built-in Yahoo! IL roster spot for injured players -- warts/loopholes and all.

Players like Dante Exum could be moved to this spot on Day 1 allowing LB17 to add a 17th player. Players like Russell Westbrook who a game with a fractured face (but only one game b/c he's Russell-freakin'-Westbrook) could go on the IL allowing Gainesville Celtics to add a 17th player and keep that player as long as I keep Westbrook on the IL.

3. Add 1 manual injured/inactive spot: We'd still need to work out the details... but this would be a manually managed roster spot (tracked by teams & the commish) where each team could (based on our discussion/decision) either (a) put an injured player on for the season (b) put an injured player on for some long stretch and/or (c) put a D-League (i.e. James Young last year) or overseas player (i.e. Dario Saric).

We didn't come to any conclusion or even language to vote on a/b/c in this option, so we'd need to hash that out.

I like option 2, with an additional tweak to allow stash players like Saric via proxy or whatever. Option #3 would be a goal for next season perhaps.

Mk


Yeah, #3 would be nice but would probably be a huge pain to jump directly into.  Better to try the standard option 2 and then see how things go from there.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2015, 12:40:15 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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I like option 2, with an additional tweak to allow stash players like Saric via proxy or whatever. Option #3 would be a goal for next season perhaps.

Mk

Same. Although I'd only support any roster expansion if it comes alongside cutting the Utility spot. I know that's less popular, but otherwise we risk further depleting a fairly shallow FA pool.

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #98 on: September 21, 2015, 01:09:15 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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(putting my GM hat on...)

I'm leaning toward either:

1. no change -- just leave rosters at 16 players

or

2. Adding one, year-long, manual Injured/stash spot (declared in the team note or commissioner's note).


I'm fearful that the Yahoo! IL spot is gonna be messy (from their end) and would rather see how it plays out than jump into it and have it affect, say, the playoffs weirdly.

I don't think it should be used for players like Saric, since he's not inactive... he's not even on a roster.
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2015, 01:16:21 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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(putting back on my commish hat):

there are pretty wide range of opinions and I'm not sure we'll come to a consensus or even majoriy.

the default if none can be reached will be no change.

-----------------

that said I made the explanatory post about the IL options as an overview... to make a change (even to the simple use of the Yahoo! IL) we need to vote on something.

so someone needs to make an amendment and it needs a second (there could be multiple or differing amendments...).

It seems to me these are the articles that could be amended -- or a new article could be proposed:

Quote from: League Constitution
3. The league uses the following 16 roster positions per team:
2 x PG
2 x SG
2 x SF
2 x PF
2 x C
1 x Utility (Util) slot
5 x bench (BN) slots

---------

18. Teams must cut down rosters to 16 players by the date announced by the commissioner.

19. Any team that wants to retain the rights to a player playing overseas must continuously keep open a roster spot for that player (except during the period discussed in #17 above). Filling that empty roster slot with a free agent or via trade releases any claim on the overseas player, who becomes a free agent available for pickup by another team once that player is added to the Yahoo! list of players.

20. Begining with the first day of the NBA season, each team may have a maximum of 2 players total listed as N/A in the Y! system and/or overseas players as described in #19 above.3
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Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2015 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #100 on: September 22, 2015, 04:50:20 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Yahoo! confirmed that to be eligible for the IL this year a player will need the INJ -- so you couldn't put James Young (last year) on there when he's in Maine or Dario Saric while he's in... Europe.

It is still unclear how a player gets that tag though --- i remember some of my players having it last year and playing (i.e. maybe a mild ankle sprain, etc.)

« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 04:59:12 PM by Gainesville Celtic »
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