Author Topic: Broussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013  (Read 26699 times)

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Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2012, 03:02:07 AM »

Offline mgent

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Kevin Garnett actually MAKES EVERYONE PLAY HARDER. He's offering elite defense and über elite help defense, but who else in the league actually ups your effort level by just being on the team?
Fits all of the above.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIxuhicp9vY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQZLzfAzfOY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KfQyaTLMYs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUlLrdWRBlc&feature=related
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2012, 06:43:22 AM »

Offline BballTim

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It's an interesting question.  Rondo is hands down not the most valuable player on the Celtics...that's Kevin Garnett.  But Garnett has absolutely zero chance at garnering national attention unless both Rondo and Pierce get hurt this year.  Rondo, on the other hand, is square in the public eye both nationally and among fans.  So, as ironic as it is, I do think Rondo is probably the biggest potential MVP candidate of this team...even though he's not actually the MVP of the team.

  Garnett won't get much national attention if PP and Rondo are hurt because he's really not going to be able to do much on his own offensively at this stage in his career. I think that KG's the MVP in terms of being the most indispensible because there's nobody else on the roster that can replace what he does but I don't think that's the criteria the voters use.

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2012, 07:19:45 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Boussard's exact words were "it could happen".  To be honest though, I still think that KG is our most impactful player (just look at the plus/minus numbers for KG on the court vs. off).

KG is an MVP candidate (or should be) if he just stays healthy and doesn't wear down too much through the season.  In order for Rondo to be a legitimate MVP candidate, he would need to dramatically improve his shooting, forcing teams to defend him honestly.

  The coach of every team we faced in the playoffs talked about trying to contain Rondo as a top or the top priority of their defenses. That's probably more meaningful than how much they worry about his jump shooting.

You watched that philly series and honestly thought their defense's top priority was "stopping rondo" ?

  Absolutely. Why did you think stopping Rondo *wasn't* a priority for Philly? Wasn't that the first series in nba history where someone had 13 or more assists in each of the first 5 games of the series?

 In any case, here's Collins after game 3:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/05/18/doug-collins-we-have-to-meet-the-challenge-of-rondo/

 "PHILADELPHIA — A lot of coaches say they want to make life difficult on Rajon Rondo.

But Doug Collins said Thursday that if his Sixers don’t do a better job of putting up a fight against the superstar point guard in Game 4, his team essentially has no shot.

“We never got Rondo stopped all night long,” Collins said of Rondo. “He took the ball wherever he wanted to take it on the floor. We have to take that challenge. We have to take on the challenge that he’s the guy that going to push on the [fast] break, he’s going to get the ball up the floor, he’s going to make the passes, he’s going to be the guy who’s initiating most of their stuff. We have to take the challenge of doing a better job on him.”"

  And here's an article from after game 5:

 http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-sixers/sixers-talk/Sixers-Game-6-plan-to-stop-Rondo-a-succe?blockID=713540

  "But rather than simply moving Andre Iguodala, the Sixers’ best perimeter defender, over to guard Rondo, Collins put top assistant Michael Curry in charge of putting together the plan to stop the point guard."

I think every team has to gameplan around Rondo if they want to win.

But for this tangential argument, I don't think any of that proves stopping Rondo was a number 1 priority. Especially since they kept trusting Jrue Holiday to stop him when he obviously wasn't.

  Aside from the fact that Turner played Rondo a lot and that there's more involved in containing Rondo than who covers him in the half court, I'd say a team changing their defensive schemes in order to slow down a certain player shows that stopping that player's a high priority for that team.

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2012, 09:31:09 AM »

Offline chambers

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It's possible, no doubt.

My biggest problem with the Rondo/MVP talk is that for Rondo to contend for the MVP, his injury risk would increase ten fold and he'd almost certainly miss a huge chunk of time with a serious hip/knee issue.
I'd rather he keep it in the bag until the playoffs.
I guess he may feel he'll have to carry us with so many youngsters and Ray gone. He's officially one of a Boston big three now and that will have some kind of psychological effect- at least in the first half of the season.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2012, 10:04:17 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Boussard's exact words were "it could happen".  To be honest though, I still think that KG is our most impactful player (just look at the plus/minus numbers for KG on the court vs. off).

KG is an MVP candidate (or should be) if he just stays healthy and doesn't wear down too much through the season.  In order for Rondo to be a legitimate MVP candidate, he would need to dramatically improve his shooting, forcing teams to defend him honestly.

  The coach of every team we faced in the playoffs talked about trying to contain Rondo as a top or the top priority of their defenses. That's probably more meaningful than how much they worry about his jump shooting.

You watched that philly series and honestly thought their defense's top priority was "stopping rondo" ?

  Absolutely. Why did you think stopping Rondo *wasn't* a priority for Philly? Wasn't that the first series in nba history where someone had 13 or more assists in each of the first 5 games of the series?

 In any case, here's Collins after game 3:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/05/18/doug-collins-we-have-to-meet-the-challenge-of-rondo/

 "PHILADELPHIA — A lot of coaches say they want to make life difficult on Rajon Rondo.

But Doug Collins said Thursday that if his Sixers don’t do a better job of putting up a fight against the superstar point guard in Game 4, his team essentially has no shot.

“We never got Rondo stopped all night long,” Collins said of Rondo. “He took the ball wherever he wanted to take it on the floor. We have to take that challenge. We have to take on the challenge that he’s the guy that going to push on the [fast] break, he’s going to get the ball up the floor, he’s going to make the passes, he’s going to be the guy who’s initiating most of their stuff. We have to take the challenge of doing a better job on him.”"

  And here's an article from after game 5:

 http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-sixers/sixers-talk/Sixers-Game-6-plan-to-stop-Rondo-a-succe?blockID=713540

  "But rather than simply moving Andre Iguodala, the Sixers’ best perimeter defender, over to guard Rondo, Collins put top assistant Michael Curry in charge of putting together the plan to stop the point guard."

I think every team has to gameplan around Rondo if they want to win.

But for this tangential argument, I don't think any of that proves stopping Rondo was a number 1 priority. Especially since they kept trusting Jrue Holiday to stop him when he obviously wasn't.

  Aside from the fact that Turner played Rondo a lot and that there's more involved in containing Rondo than who covers him in the half court, I'd say a team changing their defensive schemes in order to slow down a certain player shows that stopping that player's a high priority for that team.

High priority sure. You said number 1 priority.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2012, 10:08:09 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Boussard's exact words were "it could happen".  To be honest though, I still think that KG is our most impactful player (just look at the plus/minus numbers for KG on the court vs. off).

KG is an MVP candidate (or should be) if he just stays healthy and doesn't wear down too much through the season.  In order for Rondo to be a legitimate MVP candidate, he would need to dramatically improve his shooting, forcing teams to defend him honestly.

  The coach of every team we faced in the playoffs talked about trying to contain Rondo as a top or the top priority of their defenses. That's probably more meaningful than how much they worry about his jump shooting.

You watched that philly series and honestly thought their defense's top priority was "stopping rondo" ?

  Absolutely. Why did you think stopping Rondo *wasn't* a priority for Philly? Wasn't that the first series in nba history where someone had 13 or more assists in each of the first 5 games of the series?

 In any case, here's Collins after game 3:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/05/18/doug-collins-we-have-to-meet-the-challenge-of-rondo/

 "PHILADELPHIA — A lot of coaches say they want to make life difficult on Rajon Rondo.

But Doug Collins said Thursday that if his Sixers don’t do a better job of putting up a fight against the superstar point guard in Game 4, his team essentially has no shot.

“We never got Rondo stopped all night long,” Collins said of Rondo. “He took the ball wherever he wanted to take it on the floor. We have to take that challenge. We have to take on the challenge that he’s the guy that going to push on the [fast] break, he’s going to get the ball up the floor, he’s going to make the passes, he’s going to be the guy who’s initiating most of their stuff. We have to take the challenge of doing a better job on him.”"

  And here's an article from after game 5:

 http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-sixers/sixers-talk/Sixers-Game-6-plan-to-stop-Rondo-a-succe?blockID=713540

  "But rather than simply moving Andre Iguodala, the Sixers’ best perimeter defender, over to guard Rondo, Collins put top assistant Michael Curry in charge of putting together the plan to stop the point guard."

I think every team has to gameplan around Rondo if they want to win.

But for this tangential argument, I don't think any of that proves stopping Rondo was a number 1 priority. Especially since they kept trusting Jrue Holiday to stop him when he obviously wasn't.

  Aside from the fact that Turner played Rondo a lot and that there's more involved in containing Rondo than who covers him in the half court, I'd say a team changing their defensive schemes in order to slow down a certain player shows that stopping that player's a high priority for that team.

High priority sure. You said number 1 priority.

  I said "a top or the top priority".

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2012, 10:52:25 AM »

Offline BballTim

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This is what it takes for a PG:

19 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 35 mpg, 51% FG, 44% 3pt (2 per game), 92% FT, 63% TS, 58% eFG

  Does that mean that only one pg's ever been MVP, or that every pg that's been MVP has shot at least 44% on threes and 92% from the line? How about 11 assists a game? People should explain that requirement to whoever voted for Rose.
Yeah there's only ever been one MVP PG you got me.

....I was giving an example of the last pass first PG.  If you think 25 points and 6 made FT a game is healthier goal for Rondo next season more power to you.

  What about the year before, when Nash scored fewer points, had fewer rebounds and had lower fg%, 3pfg%, ft%, TS% and efg%? Was he unable to garner any attention in the MVP race?

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2012, 10:56:54 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Boussard's exact words were "it could happen".  To be honest though, I still think that KG is our most impactful player (just look at the plus/minus numbers for KG on the court vs. off).

KG is an MVP candidate (or should be) if he just stays healthy and doesn't wear down too much through the season.  In order for Rondo to be a legitimate MVP candidate, he would need to dramatically improve his shooting, forcing teams to defend him honestly.

  The coach of every team we faced in the playoffs talked about trying to contain Rondo as a top or the top priority of their defenses. That's probably more meaningful than how much they worry about his jump shooting.

You watched that philly series and honestly thought their defense's top priority was "stopping rondo" ?

  Absolutely. Why did you think stopping Rondo *wasn't* a priority for Philly? Wasn't that the first series in nba history where someone had 13 or more assists in each of the first 5 games of the series?

 In any case, here's Collins after game 3:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/05/18/doug-collins-we-have-to-meet-the-challenge-of-rondo/

 "PHILADELPHIA — A lot of coaches say they want to make life difficult on Rajon Rondo.

But Doug Collins said Thursday that if his Sixers don’t do a better job of putting up a fight against the superstar point guard in Game 4, his team essentially has no shot.

“We never got Rondo stopped all night long,” Collins said of Rondo. “He took the ball wherever he wanted to take it on the floor. We have to take that challenge. We have to take on the challenge that he’s the guy that going to push on the [fast] break, he’s going to get the ball up the floor, he’s going to make the passes, he’s going to be the guy who’s initiating most of their stuff. We have to take the challenge of doing a better job on him.”"

  And here's an article from after game 5:

 http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-sixers/sixers-talk/Sixers-Game-6-plan-to-stop-Rondo-a-succe?blockID=713540

  "But rather than simply moving Andre Iguodala, the Sixers’ best perimeter defender, over to guard Rondo, Collins put top assistant Michael Curry in charge of putting together the plan to stop the point guard."

I think every team has to gameplan around Rondo if they want to win.

But for this tangential argument, I don't think any of that proves stopping Rondo was a number 1 priority. Especially since they kept trusting Jrue Holiday to stop him when he obviously wasn't.

  Aside from the fact that Turner played Rondo a lot and that there's more involved in containing Rondo than who covers him in the half court, I'd say a team changing their defensive schemes in order to slow down a certain player shows that stopping that player's a high priority for that team.

High priority sure. You said number 1 priority.

  I said "a top or the top priority".

He said, 'did you think it..was the top priority."

you said "absolutely"

You will acknowledge my semantics victory here Tim. You will. 

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2012, 11:01:54 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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This is what it takes for a PG:

19 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 35 mpg, 51% FG, 44% 3pt (2 per game), 92% FT, 63% TS, 58% eFG

  Does that mean that only one pg's ever been MVP, or that every pg that's been MVP has shot at least 44% on threes and 92% from the line? How about 11 assists a game? People should explain that requirement to whoever voted for Rose.
Yeah there's only ever been one MVP PG you got me.

....I was giving an example of the last pass first PG.  If you think 25 points and 6 made FT a game is healthier goal for Rondo next season more power to you.

  What about the year before, when Nash scored fewer points, had fewer rebounds and had lower fg%, 3pfg%, ft%, TS% and efg%? Was he unable to garner any attention in the MVP race?

Not much lower in a statistically relevant way, excepting rebounds.

But that said, nearly everyone agrees that's the MVP he didn't deserve. It got made right though in 06-07 when he did deserve one.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2012, 11:02:43 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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anything is possible, but id be shocked if he ever won it.  it would take:
-an unbelievable season from rondo
-the celtics being a top 2 team in the east
- injuries or poor seasons from a few other superstars

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2012, 11:06:50 AM »

Offline Eja117

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anything is possible, but id be shocked if he ever won it.  it would take:
-an unbelievable season from rondo
-the celtics being a top 2 team in the east
- injuries or poor seasons from a few other superstars
This.....I think Broussard maybe just threw something out there hoping to get some credit later if it sticks

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2012, 11:10:26 AM »

Offline footey

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ondo is the eal deal.

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2012, 11:13:45 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Boussard's exact words were "it could happen".  To be honest though, I still think that KG is our most impactful player (just look at the plus/minus numbers for KG on the court vs. off).

KG is an MVP candidate (or should be) if he just stays healthy and doesn't wear down too much through the season.  In order for Rondo to be a legitimate MVP candidate, he would need to dramatically improve his shooting, forcing teams to defend him honestly.

  The coach of every team we faced in the playoffs talked about trying to contain Rondo as a top or the top priority of their defenses. That's probably more meaningful than how much they worry about his jump shooting.

You watched that philly series and honestly thought their defense's top priority was "stopping rondo" ?

  Absolutely. Why did you think stopping Rondo *wasn't* a priority for Philly? Wasn't that the first series in nba history where someone had 13 or more assists in each of the first 5 games of the series?

 In any case, here's Collins after game 3:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2012/05/18/doug-collins-we-have-to-meet-the-challenge-of-rondo/

 "PHILADELPHIA — A lot of coaches say they want to make life difficult on Rajon Rondo.

But Doug Collins said Thursday that if his Sixers don’t do a better job of putting up a fight against the superstar point guard in Game 4, his team essentially has no shot.

“We never got Rondo stopped all night long,” Collins said of Rondo. “He took the ball wherever he wanted to take it on the floor. We have to take that challenge. We have to take on the challenge that he’s the guy that going to push on the [fast] break, he’s going to get the ball up the floor, he’s going to make the passes, he’s going to be the guy who’s initiating most of their stuff. We have to take the challenge of doing a better job on him.”"

  And here's an article from after game 5:

 http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-sixers/sixers-talk/Sixers-Game-6-plan-to-stop-Rondo-a-succe?blockID=713540

  "But rather than simply moving Andre Iguodala, the Sixers’ best perimeter defender, over to guard Rondo, Collins put top assistant Michael Curry in charge of putting together the plan to stop the point guard."

I think every team has to gameplan around Rondo if they want to win.

But for this tangential argument, I don't think any of that proves stopping Rondo was a number 1 priority. Especially since they kept trusting Jrue Holiday to stop him when he obviously wasn't.

  Aside from the fact that Turner played Rondo a lot and that there's more involved in containing Rondo than who covers him in the half court, I'd say a team changing their defensive schemes in order to slow down a certain player shows that stopping that player's a high priority for that team.

High priority sure. You said number 1 priority.

  I said "a top or the top priority".

He said, 'did you think it..was the top priority."

you said "absolutely"

You will acknowledge my semantics victory here Tim. You will.

  It should be a semantics tie. You said "a number 1 priority" as opposed to "the number 1 priority". "a number 1 priority" implies that there could be other number 1 priorities. I chose to ignore that instead of getting caught up in semantics, just like I paid less attention to the significance of someone saying "the top priority" when responding to my post which said "a top or the top priority".

  I'm annoying enough when I don't pick apart posts to that degree, thank you very much.

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2012, 11:19:47 AM »

Offline BballTim

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This is what it takes for a PG:

19 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 35 mpg, 51% FG, 44% 3pt (2 per game), 92% FT, 63% TS, 58% eFG

  Does that mean that only one pg's ever been MVP, or that every pg that's been MVP has shot at least 44% on threes and 92% from the line? How about 11 assists a game? People should explain that requirement to whoever voted for Rose.
Yeah there's only ever been one MVP PG you got me.

....I was giving an example of the last pass first PG.  If you think 25 points and 6 made FT a game is healthier goal for Rondo next season more power to you.

  What about the year before, when Nash scored fewer points, had fewer rebounds and had lower fg%, 3pfg%, ft%, TS% and efg%? Was he unable to garner any attention in the MVP race?

Not much lower in a statistically relevant way, excepting rebounds.

But that said, nearly everyone agrees that's the MVP he didn't deserve. It got made right though in 06-07 when he did deserve one.

  3 points a game is statistically relevant. And "deserves the MVP" is fairly nebulous, kind of like "deserves to be an all-star".

Re: Boussard: Rondo Could be MVP in 2013
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2012, 11:36:53 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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This is what it takes for a PG:

19 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 35 mpg, 51% FG, 44% 3pt (2 per game), 92% FT, 63% TS, 58% eFG

  Does that mean that only one pg's ever been MVP, or that every pg that's been MVP has shot at least 44% on threes and 92% from the line? How about 11 assists a game? People should explain that requirement to whoever voted for Rose.
Yeah there's only ever been one MVP PG you got me.

....I was giving an example of the last pass first PG.  If you think 25 points and 6 made FT a game is healthier goal for Rondo next season more power to you.

  What about the year before, when Nash scored fewer points, had fewer rebounds and had lower fg%, 3pfg%, ft%, TS% and efg%? Was he unable to garner any attention in the MVP race?

Not much lower in a statistically relevant way, excepting rebounds.

But that said, nearly everyone agrees that's the MVP he didn't deserve. It got made right though in 06-07 when he did deserve one.

  3 points a game is statistically relevant. And "deserves the MVP" is fairly nebulous, kind of like "deserves to be an all-star".

Yeah the 3 points per game was significant.

But the 'deserves the MVP' that season wasn't nebulous at all. People just didn't want to give the award to Shaq. Shaq averaged 22 and 10 that year for Miami, and took a team that finished 42-40 to 59-23.

You can find about a bagillion articles about that 04-05 year. That, along with 2011's Derrick Rose are heralded as two 'we just didn't wanna put the right guy in there' awards.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner