Holy smokes. They just ruined Lance Armstong.

[Roy H.]

Not to get too far off topic but how about the entire NBA?

Waiting for that bomb to drop. I mean seriously

And the NFL.  And the NHL.

I think it's comical that you see only a handful of suspensions related to PED use in football every year.  I guarantee that at least 50% of the league is doping, and it's probably much higher than that.

I mean, I saw guys using steroids on our dinky Class B football team in Maine.  I saw football players and rowers using steroids at a small NESCAC Division III team.  And yet, I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't happen at the highest level of the sport?

[European NBA fan]

Okay he may or may not have used. Or the drugs he took for his cancer treatment either gave him the boost he needed, or hide the other drugs.

But he's been clean on all drug test. Nothing was found that he cheated those test.

But we take the word of a cheater that he cheated?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty.

I can't believe that they can strip him with out and hard proof. Especially when he beat people that were using to, so its not like if he was, he had a huge advantage over some of the other main contending riders.

Used or not, I use to bike, and the only time I watched the tour was during his run. It was amazing how he could be behind and then once they got to the mountains he ran away with it.

If he didn't use, I think the reason it seemed like he did, is because of his battle with cancer. He new the limits of his body, what pains he could work threw, and how much it took till his body had no more. So he could push threw more.

Its too bad, he's done more good than bad.

The Doping Agencies don't have the power to strip anyone of their titles, so nothing has happened yet.

The Danish Tour de France-winner Bjarne Riis (1996) used to say, that he had never been tested positive. But in 2007 as a cycling team owner he came clean and admitted that he had used EPO at the time.

He was originally stripped of his title by the organizers, but got reinstated with an asterisk a year later for two reasons: First of all the UCI wouldn't take the title away from Riis, so the organizers would have trouble rewriting history. Secondly it was too late to change the results according to the rules (but the organizers could probably live with that).

A probable third reason might be, that all the top riders that year at some point have been suspended for doping (either tested positive or being connected to a doping program). So you couldn't replace Riis without opening Pandora's box.

[Boris Badenov]

Not to get too far off topic but how about the entire NBA?

Waiting for that bomb to drop. I mean seriously

And the NFL.  And the NHL.

I think it's comical that you see only a handful of suspensions related to PED use in football every year.  I guarantee that at least 50% of the league is doping, and it's probably much higher than that.

I mean, I saw guys using steroids on our dinky Class B football team in Maine.  I saw football players and rowers using steroids at a small NESCAC Division III team.  And yet, I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't happen at the highest level of the sport?

I think 50% is low.

There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)

If the NBA and NFL enforced real bans, those leagues would evaporate.

I think as long as you have bans on some substances, the economic incentive for people to develop newer, better and harder-to-detect PEDs will be huge. Think about how much a professional athlete gains in salary for moving from "good" to "great." And, medical research is only going to get better in terms of its ability to develop those drugs.

Eventually I see the leagues as allowing a small set of the safest PEDs, with an understanding that players must be open about using them. The idea is to make it unappealing, financially and in terms of health, to use something illegal and possibly more dangerous for only a small performance edge relative to everyone else. There's really no other option that is workable over the long run.

[Cman]

This is no surprise -- the possibility of this stuff happening has been around for the last couple years as more and more evidence about Armstrong's alleged drug use arose.

In any case, I admire Armstrong for what he did.

[kevbo]

I saw football players and rowers using steroids at a small NESCAC Division III team.  And yet, I'm supposed to believe that it doesn't happen at the highest level of the sport?

I find the idea that NESCAC athletes were doping beyond say, using actual dope, hilarious. But then, maybe that's because I went to Wesleyan, were performance unenhancement was far more likely than the other. In earnest though, I suspect doping is far more widespread across sports than we'd all care to imagine (NESCAC included!). Any time you combine hypercompetitive people, money/career outcomes, and countless hours of training to gain a performance edge on opponents, it's a perfect brew for incentivizing doping, cheating, and any other shadow behavior in sports. A lesson as a sports viewer in not getting too wrapped up in sports or the character of people who play/run/manage them. But yet, here I am posting on a Celtics message board. I should really listen to myself more

[fairweatherfan]

There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)

You really think so?  An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era.  Especially with regard to all the HR records.  Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.

[Boris Badenov]

There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)

You really think so?  An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era.  Especially with regard to all the HR records.  Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.

Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.

Just my guess though.

[fairweatherfan]

There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)

You really think so?  An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era.  Especially with regard to all the HR records.  Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.

Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.

Just my guess though.

True.  It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal).  That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now. 

I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage.  I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season.  That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.

[Pucaccia]

Next week no one will care.  He will still get high endorsements.  The U.S. still holds him in high regard. It was a good move by him. Now he can get on with his life.

[slamtheking]

There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)

You really think so?  An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era.  Especially with regard to all the HR records.  Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.

Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.

Just my guess though.

True.  It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal).  That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now. 

I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage.  I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season.  That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.

Interesting.  I think Lebron would be a good person to test first.
- Built like a freak of nature. 
- Emotionally unstable (constantly crying to refs over calls/non-calls)
- has a game based on his physical attributes.
- can't shoot worth a [dang] and that's the one thing PEDs wouldn't help.

I'm not saying he's using but he's the first one I start with if they do start testing in the NBA.  Can only hope that a positive test would force Stern to vacate that title.   

[KGs Knee]

Next week no one will care.  He will still get high endorsements.  The U.S. still holds him in high regard. It was a good move by him. Now he can get on with his life.

Do not underestimate the "angry mob" mentality.

What the USADA is doing is disgraceful.  Making it's highest profile athelete a whipping boy, in a vein attempt to rein in the sport and gain legitimacy, is misguided.

The sport of cycling itself seems to agree with Armstrong, thus why the UCI is still fighting for Armstrong to keep his titles.  There is insufficient evidence to support the actions of the USADA and World Anti-doping Agency.

[Boris Badenov]

There's a reason that the one sport we see enforcing bans is the one where it probably affects performance the least. (And I still think that the number of guys using is pretty high in MLB.)

You really think so?  An awful lot of extraordinary things happened during the Steroid Era.  Especially with regard to all the HR records.  Heck, Brady Anderson got 50 batting leadoff and nobody even remembers him now.

Good point, but I suspect that if everyone on the Pats' OL was juiced and playing against defenses where no one was taking PEDs, they would score about 100 points a game. I don't think we can ever see that edge, though, because in my opinion all of those guys are probably taking something, and have been since high school.

Just my guess though.

True.  It's weird reading old stories about NFL players openly juicing in the 70s (before steroids were illegal).  That stuff's been a part of the culture for generations now. 

I don't know how much of the NBA is on PEDs - my guess is it helps with recovery as much as an on-court advantage.  I do have a pet theory that D-Wade quit (or dialed back) juicing after he tore his shoulder up that one season.  That's a classic PED-type injury, and his physique changed pretty dramatically after that.

Interesting.  I think Lebron would be a good person to test first.
- Built like a freak of nature. 
- Emotionally unstable (constantly crying to refs over calls/non-calls)
- has a game based on his physical attributes.
- can't shoot worth a [dang] and that's the one thing PEDs wouldn't help.

I'm not saying he's using but he's the first one I start with if they do start testing in the NBA.  Can only hope that a positive test would force Stern to vacate that title.   

Based on physical appearance alone, I would say:

Ron Artest
Dwight Howard
Blake Griffin
Ben Wallace
Kendrick Perkins
Corey Maggette
Tony Allen
Ben Gordon

[dlpin]

Do not underestimate the "angry mob" mentality.

What the USADA is doing is disgraceful.  Making it's highest profile athelete a whipping boy, in a vein attempt to rein in the sport and gain legitimacy, is misguided.

The sport of cycling itself seems to agree with Armstrong, thus why the UCI is still fighting for Armstrong to keep his titles.  There is insufficient evidence to support the actions of the USADA and World Anti-doping Agency.

This is not true at all. First, what the USADA is doing is actually pretty common practice.

Second, considering the UCI has been more than willing to sweep evidence against Armstrong under the rug, whatever they feel is irrelevant.

Finally, there is a lot more evidence against Armstrong, including tests from 09 and 10, than there ever was against Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, the East Germany swim teams, etc.

Seeing as dopers know they can get away with stuff if the tests don't exist for whatever they are doing, the only way to bust them is when testing technology catches up.

[Mr Green]

I'm incredibly cynical about the majority of professional athletes, especially Michael Phelps.

I remember watching Ben Johnson run 100m in 9.79 seconds at the 1988 Olympics. He subsequently tested positive for Stanozolol and was stripped of his gold medal several days later. Fast forward 24 years to London 2012 and I'm supposed to believe that Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9.63 seconds while clean? Whatever.

That being said, I think Lance Armstrong should be left alone. It amuses me to see so many Europeans unable to deal with the fact that none of them can ever be considered as the greatest push bike rider in history.

[dlpin]

I'm incredibly cynical about the majority of professional athletes, especially Michael Phelps.

I remember watching Ben Johnson run 100m in 9.79 seconds at the 1988 Olympics. He subsequently tested positive for Stanozolol and was stripped of his gold medal several days later. Fast forward 24 years to London 2012 and I'm supposed to believe that Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9.63 seconds while clean? Whatever.

That being said, I think Lance Armstrong should be left alone. It amuses me to see so many Europeans unable to deal with the fact that none of them can ever be considered as the greatest push bike rider in history.

The USADA is the one going after him, not any Europeans. In fact, the UCI, based in Switzerland, has been a pretty pro Armstrong organization. I think it's funny that people get so caught up in nationalism and all that that they fail to understand that the case against Armstrong comes from the USADA, which is in turn based on testimony that came forward during a federal investigation into corruption on the US Postal team.

As for him being left alone, why? Tyler Hamilton was just stripped of his 2004 gold medal. Investigations into other cyclists are pretty much ongoing, why should Armstrong get a pass?