Author Topic: Bass vs. Sully  (Read 18891 times)

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Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2012, 06:07:46 AM »

fitzhickey

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Here's some nice Summer League highlights of Sullinger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU3-r409iGc

Liked that 3 at 1:45. If he improves that mid range game, and impresses doc, we will probs be trading bass mid season.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2012, 07:33:17 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Highlights are great but his FG% was abyssmal at times.  Don't be fooled by some film of the good things.   He does have nice footwork and great hands.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2012, 08:50:52 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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how about sully play a minute of nba bball before we get into these discussions.  until he proves himself, bass is better and should play a lot more than sully.  we know what bass can do

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2012, 10:47:14 PM »

Offline billysan

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how about sully play a minute of nba bball before we get into these discussions.  until he proves himself, bass is better and should play a lot more than sully.  we know what bass can do
A sensible man would agree and follow that course.

Gotta enjoy the speculation and fantasy that we possibly stole a real live NBA stud in this draft. Sully fills the bill so far. Even though he still has a lot to prove, what's not to love?  ;D
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2012, 09:24:35 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Quote from: kozlodoev
I don't think Pierce will be playing 36-38 minutes. As a matter of fact, I won't be surprised to see the team try to hold both him and Garnett to ~28 mpg. This leaves a massive 40 mpg to be filled by backups, plenty of space to fit both Sullinger and Green.

Small lineups or not, though, I don't see Green ever being a viable primary backup for KG, and I see the remanining 10-12 mpg there as Sullinger's to lose at this point.

Not really...

Lets assume that Pierce, Bass and KG all start and play about 28 MPG.

That leaves 60 bench minutes to be split between SF, PF and C.

The biggest reason Doc loves Green so much they see him as the first genuine streth 3 since James Posey - their entire interest in him is the fact that he can play both forward positions.  Consider that PLUS his 9M/year contract and I'd be willing to bet that Doc will want at least 25-28 minutes from Green shared between the two forward spots.

Not lets say Green plays only 25 minutes off the bench (20 at SF, 5 at PF) - that leaves 35 minutes remaining to split between PF and C, with possible candidates being Sullinger, Wilcox, Collins and Melo.  I'd say that either Collins or Melo will probably get ~5 mins a game (much like Hollins last season) so that leaves 30 mins. 

If healthy I would expect Wilcox to get pretty solid minutes at the PF/C positions mostly because he proved last year that he's capable of providing great energy off the bench.  I see him getting 15-20 mins of playing time if he returns to last season's form.

That leaves 10-15 mins spare that I imagine would probably go to Sullinger, but all of this assumes that:

1. Bass only plays 28 minutes: He's only 26, so they may well play him 32-34 minutes which would bring Sullys mins down to 6 - 11

2. Green will only play 25 mins - Doc may want to give him more time and PF, so could play him as much as 30 MPG, and that would leave 1-6 minutes for Sully

3. That Collins and / or Melo play no more then 5 MPG combined.  Due to his experience Doc may well play Collins as the primary backup centre (for 10-15 MPG), in which case Collins, Green and Wilcox would probably eat up almost all the minutes at PF and Center

Remember that Collins was the starting center for Atlanta at times last year, and has proven he can be effective (in terms of impact, if not statisitcally) in significant minutes.  It's not unrealistic to think that Doc may give him solid minutes if he wants to maintain a big presence inside and protect KG from all that extra banging.

The depth and makeup of this Boston team - combined with their future direction - makes it very difficult to see how Doc will go with the lineups. 

He may go with past history and give more minutes to the proven veterans (like Collins, Wilcox). 

On the other hand he might see that time is running out for KG and Pierce, and may try to give significant minutes to Melo and Sully from the start to fast track their development. 

Hell he may even start Jeff Green at PF, then slide him over to SF (and bring Bass off he bench at PF) when Pirce sits. 

He may start Collins at Center and Garnett at PF so that KG can play his preferred PF position, then bring Wilcox (C) and Bass (PF) off the bench to back up those positions - very unlike scenario, but who knows?

If the past is anything to go by Doc will see who puts in the heart and the hustle in training camp and practice, and he'll reward those guys with minutes.  Remeber that both More and Johnson got minute at times last year, and neither really showed even half the potition of what this season's rookies look to have.


Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2012, 09:39:07 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I don't think people are taking into account the possibility that Bass also improves his game over the offseason. He's coming into the prime of his career and improved substantially in his 1st season in Boston. Continuity could do even more wonders for a guy who has floated around the league thus far in his career.

Honestly, I think Bass' greatest asset is his consistency.

To me he didn't really show any signs of improvement (other then defensively) last season, and his game was pretty close to what it's always been.

He's still a very one dimensional player in terms of his talent-set, and his only real standout still is the abiltiy to step out and hit the open 12-15 foot jump shot. 

He's struggles to hit that shot when challenged, his defense is 'limited', his rebounding is quite average overall, he's not a great passer, and he has almost zero inside game.

I actually really liked what I saw from Bass when he put the ball on the floor and took it aggressively to the rim, but he very rarely did so..he was always much more content just popping up jumpers. 

Sullinger doesn't have the proven NBA game yet that Bass has, but IMHO he has more upside.  He's got an inside game, he's a great passer, he's an exceptional rebounder, and he's still a very capable midrange shooter. 

I see Sullinger one day providing a Carlos Boozer like stat line (17/9/3) while also producing those numbers in a more efficient mantter (drawing more fouls rather then popping up tons of jump shots).  I see him being a very good (if not quite All-Star) calibre starter.

I don't really see Bass ever putting up much more then the 14/7/1 that he's producing right now.  I think he benefits from all the attention KG and Pierce draw on defence, as well as Rondo's ability to provide him passes right on cue.  I've noticed that when he has to initiate the offense he seems to struggle and take bad shots.  I don't think that giving him a bigger role in the offense would improve his numbers at all in terms of efficiency or production on a per minute basis. 

Another thing is that Bass doesn't really seem to produce any better in a starting role, so I think he is actually far more valuable as a very good backup.  14/7/2 are very average numbers for a starting PF in the NBA, but they are outstanding numbers for a 6th man.

I think that next year (if not this year) Sullinger or Green will be starting over Bass.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2012, 10:04:11 AM »

Offline arambone

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Highlights are great but his FG% was abyssmal at times.  Don't be fooled by some film of the good things.   He does have nice footwork and great hands.

Sullinger was told to stretch his range and take shots he won't be taking in the regular season. Also, Sullinger was fouled on a lot of his shots. It's a great skill to have, but it hurts FG%.

Sullinger doesn't even need to shoot much to be a major contributor. His game dovetails perfectly with Rondo/Bradley/Pierce/Garnett.


Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2012, 10:42:43 AM »

Offline KJ33

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Highlights are great but his FG% was abyssmal at times.  Don't be fooled by some film of the good things.   He does have nice footwork and great hands.

Sullinger was told to stretch his range and take shots he won't be taking in the regular season. Also, Sullinger was fouled on a lot of his shots. It's a great skill to have, but it hurts FG%.

Sullinger doesn't even need to shoot much to be a major contributor. His game dovetails perfectly with Rondo/Bradley/Pierce/Garnett.

Not sure what you mean by "fouled on a lot of his shots" in terms of it hurting his FG%.  If you mean, created contact, should have had a foul called, and thus missed, then yes, that would impact FG%.  But any actual foul called that sends him to the line does not count as a FGA, thus has no bearing on his FG%.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2012, 11:43:25 AM »

Offline arambone

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Highlights are great but his FG% was abyssmal at times.  Don't be fooled by some film of the good things.   He does have nice footwork and great hands.

Sullinger was told to stretch his range and take shots he won't be taking in the regular season. Also, Sullinger was fouled on a lot of his shots. It's a great skill to have, but it hurts FG%.

Sullinger doesn't even need to shoot much to be a major contributor. His game dovetails perfectly with Rondo/Bradley/Pierce/Garnett.

Not sure what you mean by "fouled on a lot of his shots" in terms of it hurting his FG%.  If you mean, created contact, should have had a foul called, and thus missed, then yes, that would impact FG%.  But any actual foul called that sends him to the line does not count as a FGA, thus has no bearing on his FG%.

My bad, thanks.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2012, 10:44:38 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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how about sully play a minute of nba bball before we get into these discussions.  until he proves himself, bass is better and should play a lot more than sully.  we know what bass can do
A sensible man would agree and follow that course.

Gotta enjoy the speculation and fantasy that we possibly stole a real live NBA stud in this draft. Sully fills the bill so far. Even though he still has a lot to prove, what's not to love?  ;D
Fully agree but I still want to temper my enthusiasm until at least pre-season against real NBA front court defenders.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2012, 11:50:17 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Sullinger is pretty squarely Bass's backup, I just hope very much his minutes don't drop below 15-18 because of Jeff Green taking them at the 4.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2012, 07:46:31 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Sullinger was told to stretch his range and take shots he won't be taking in the regular season. Also, Sullinger was fouled on a lot of his shots. It's a great skill to have, but it hurts FG%.

Good shooters miss shots long or short, not left or right.  Fouled shots affect FG%, LOL, nope they don't count as KJ33 ably notes above.  They have never counted on a foul.

I hope he does great but summer league did not impress me with other than his hands and rebounding.   I think he could struggle against height but he is smart and uses his body well.  Anytime someone is uses the jumphook a lot it means they are trying to avoid being blocked.   It is harder to block a hook but most guys are better shooting a layup or bank shot but they can get the hook off against anyone.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2012, 11:42:15 AM »

Offline gar

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Will be great to have someone to push Bass to be a more well rounded player. Sully has some distinct advantages when compared with Bass in terms of rebounding and his inside game, ability to get to the foul line, etc. All of which will be useful with the second team. There will also be some play between Bass and Wilcox. Does Doc start Wilcox at center and then move KG when Bass comes in or does he start KG at center and Bass at PF with Wilcox and Collins subbing in at Center.

Doc and Danny both said that Sully would have to learn to play center if he wanted to get minutes so that adds another wrinkle. Nice problem to have though.

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2012, 12:31:37 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I wish we could start Sully at the four for boards.   I think he would excel at that.  he might be the best rebounder on the team already.  But his D will most likely nip that and him being a rook.   But he has top notch hands and a zip code sized deriere which helps on the boards. 

Re: Bass vs. Sully
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2012, 10:27:20 AM »

Offline arambone

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I bet Sully is crushing Bass in practice.

I think Sully definitely makes sense starting next to KG against certain lineups, but he could end up making sense against every starting lineup.

When Bradley comes back and opposing teams struggle once again just to get into their sets, opposing teams will have less time to potentially exploit Sully's potentially average or below average defense.

I think Sully will be just fine against most NBA centers, and can prevent them from establishing deep positioning. Sully also defends the passing lanes very well, has good court awareness to play help defense, and learns very fast, even in games depending on what's going on.

Sully can also handle some power forwards, especially if Bradley and Rondo are working their magic and KG has Sully's back.

On offense, Sullinger in the starting lineup is pure synergy, and don't forget that he can also draw his man out of the lane with his jump shooting ability.

A starting lineup with Sully in it is as versatile and adaptive as it gets on offense.

Would Sully be the best fifth scoring option in the NBA? He could easily be the #1 or 2 scoring option against many lineups where beanpole PFs fail miserably to keep him away from hoop.