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2012 Patriots Football
« on: August 13, 2012, 07:42:53 AM »

Offline Bahku

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This thread is dedicated to general discussion of the New England Patriots 2012 Pre-Season and Regular-Season games.


                       



Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!       Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!        Go Patriots!!


Should be an exciting year ... can't wait to see how this team shapes up over the pre-season.

 
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2012, 07:44:14 AM »

Offline Bahku

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I'd personally be fine with having Plaxico as the fourth or fifth option for Brady ... we'll see.
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2012, 07:46:55 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I'd personally be fine with having Plaxico as the fourth or fifth option for Brady ... we'll see.

I would agree with you if it werent for the baggage, course without the baggage he probably wount be available.

I dunno, I just don't want to invite trouble into the lockeroom.  Though when you think about it, him and gronk together would be very tough to cover around the goal line
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2012, 09:03:41 AM »

Offline celtsfan84

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I'd personally be fine with having Plaxico as the fourth or fifth option for Brady ... we'll see.

I would agree with you if it werent for the baggage, course without the baggage he probably wount be available.

I dunno, I just don't want to invite trouble into the lockeroom.  Though when you think about it, him and gronk together would be very tough to cover around the goal line

I don't think a fourth or fifth option is worth any baggage.  Especially a fourth or fifth option with diminished speed and no ability to play special teams.

Aren't the Patriots already one of the best teams in football in the red zone?  How much improvement could Burress possibly bring there?

It wouldn't seem worth hurting the team in other areas - special teams, potential locker room baggage, possibly depth at other positions, losing a guy like Branch or Gaffney, etc... just to bring in a mild red zone upgrade.

Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2012, 09:13:00 AM »

Offline Bahku

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I'd personally be fine with having Plaxico as the fourth or fifth option for Brady ... we'll see.

I would agree with you if it werent for the baggage, course without the baggage he probably wount be available.

I dunno, I just don't want to invite trouble into the lockeroom.  Though when you think about it, him and gronk together would be very tough to cover around the goal line
Thing is, most of the baggage is at Goodwill now, and if anything did come up, then the impact of losing him would be nil ... like Greenberg said, typical Belichick move, lots of upside, no downside.
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 09:26:52 AM »

Offline celtsfan84

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I'd personally be fine with having Plaxico as the fourth or fifth option for Brady ... we'll see.

I would agree with you if it werent for the baggage, course without the baggage he probably wount be available.

I dunno, I just don't want to invite trouble into the lockeroom.  Though when you think about it, him and gronk together would be very tough to cover around the goal line
Thing is, most of the baggage is at Goodwill now, and if anything did come up, then the impact of losing him would be nil ... like Greenberg said, typical Belichick move, lots of upside, no downside.

That isn't entirely true though.  If Burress makes the team instead of Branch, Stallworth, or Gaffney and then baggage comes up during the season, the impact of losing him would be losing Branch, Stallworth, or Gaffney for nothing.  Branch, Stallworth, and Gaffney probably won't be waiting around at home for Belichick to call back.

Are we even sure he has more left than Branch, Stallworth, or Gaffney at this point?  Or even some young, undrafted, unknown quantity?

There is always an opportunity cost, especially on a team as good as New England.  Only 53 players can make an NFL team, so any player added costs a good player his job.  People said the same about Chad last year, and then we needed him in the Super Bowl, the Giants simply single covered him because he had no speed left.  Burress could be next in the line of Holt, Galloway, and Ochocinco.

However, he is still 6'5 and a great red zone target, which is certainly valuable so I can see the case to be made FOR Plaxico Burress.  However, I think the case AGAINST is just as compelling.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 09:45:39 AM by celtsfan84 »

Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 10:46:14 AM »

Offline Bahku

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I'd personally be fine with having Plaxico as the fourth or fifth option for Brady ... we'll see.

I would agree with you if it werent for the baggage, course without the baggage he probably wount be available.

I dunno, I just don't want to invite trouble into the lockeroom. Though when you think about it, him and gronk together would be very tough to cover around the goal line
Thing is, most of the baggage is at Goodwill now, and if anything did come up, then the impact of losing him would be nil ... like Greenberg said, typical Belichick move, lots of upside, no downside.

That isn't entirely true though.  If Burress makes the team instead of Branch, Stallworth, or Gaffney and then baggage comes up during the season, the impact of losing him would be losing Branch, Stallworth, or Gaffney for nothing.  Branch, Stallworth, and Gaffney probably won't be waiting around at home for Belichick to call back.

Are we even sure he has more left than Branch, Stallworth, or Gaffney at this point?  Or even some young, undrafted, unknown quantity?

There is always an opportunity cost, especially on a team as good as New England.  Only 53 players can make an NFL team, so any player added costs a good player his job.  People said the same about Chad last year, and then we needed him in the Super Bowl, the Giants simply single covered him because he had no speed left.  Burress could be next in the line of Holt, Galloway, and Ochocinco.

However, he is still 6'5 and a great red zone target, which is certainly valuable so I can see the case to be made FOR Plaxico Burress.  However, I think the case AGAINST is just as compelling.
Depends what those guys have left, and who's healthy at kickoff of the regular season.

I wouldn't want him at the expense of a Branch or a Gaffney, (if uninjured), but nobody else has shown much interest, so I think he can be had cheaply.

Great role-player to have for the red-zone threat and the long ball, even if just bait to free up Gronk and Wes.

We're plenty deep at that position, but he's just so great at keeping defenses honest.

We'll see where we are in a couple of weeks, but we may not hear anything more about it anyway..
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 11:24:22 AM »

Offline Chris

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I think Plaxico is irrelevant for the most part. 

This team's achiles heal is the offensive line.  And they need to get that in line before worrying about anything else.

Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 11:35:32 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I think Plaxico is irrelevant for the most part. 

This team's achiles heal is the offensive line.  And they need to get that in line before worrying about anything else.

Agreed.

I expect the defense to be better this year but the O-Line is my biggest concern and could be the one thing that keeps this team from greatness.


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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 11:39:51 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think Plaxico is irrelevant for the most part. 

This team's achiles heal is the offensive line.  And they need to get that in line before worrying about anything else.

Agreed.

I expect the defense to be better this year but the O-Line is my biggest concern and could be the one thing that keeps this team from greatness.

I think the line gets much better once Mankins and waters are re-insterted.  I think you will see a dropoff from light to Solder but it won't be huge. 

I think the connoly and koppen combo will work well at center and I hope that Vollmer/Cannon can keep it locked down on right tackle.

But really I would say the interior line is strong and the left tackle position should be slightly above average with the right tackle position hopefully be able to band-aided together
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 11:42:17 AM »

Offline Chris

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I think Plaxico is irrelevant for the most part. 

This team's achiles heal is the offensive line.  And they need to get that in line before worrying about anything else.

Agreed.

I expect the defense to be better this year but the O-Line is my biggest concern and could be the one thing that keeps this team from greatness.

I think the line gets much better once Mankins and waters are re-insterted.  I think you will see a dropoff from light to Solder but it won't be huge. 

I think the connoly and koppen combo will work well at center and I hope that Vollmer/Cannon can keep it locked down on right tackle.

But really I would say the interior line is strong and the left tackle position should be slightly above average with the right tackle position hopefully be able to band-aided together

If Water's does come back I will feel much better about things.  But I am not sure that is a given, even though it seems to be what everyone is assuming. 


Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 11:45:49 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think Plaxico is irrelevant for the most part. 

This team's achiles heal is the offensive line.  And they need to get that in line before worrying about anything else.

Agreed.

I expect the defense to be better this year but the O-Line is my biggest concern and could be the one thing that keeps this team from greatness.

I think the line gets much better once Mankins and waters are re-insterted.  I think you will see a dropoff from light to Solder but it won't be huge. 

I think the connoly and koppen combo will work well at center and I hope that Vollmer/Cannon can keep it locked down on right tackle.

But really I would say the interior line is strong and the left tackle position should be slightly above average with the right tackle position hopefully be able to band-aided together

If Water's does come back I will feel much better about things.  But I am not sure that is a given, even though it seems to be what everyone is assuming.

Agreed on that point,  I do believe though that they are just going to let him come in after the preseason much like he did last year. 
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 11:49:55 AM »

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I think Plaxico is irrelevant for the most part. 

This team's achiles heal is the offensive line.  And they need to get that in line before worrying about anything else.

Agreed.

I expect the defense to be better this year but the O-Line is my biggest concern and could be the one thing that keeps this team from greatness.

I think the line gets much better once Mankins and waters are re-insterted.  I think you will see a dropoff from light to Solder but it won't be huge. 

I think the connoly and koppen combo will work well at center and I hope that Vollmer/Cannon can keep it locked down on right tackle.

But really I would say the interior line is strong and the left tackle position should be slightly above average with the right tackle position hopefully be able to band-aided together

If Water's does come back I will feel much better about things.  But I am not sure that is a given, even though it seems to be what everyone is assuming.

Agreed on that point,  I do believe though that they are just going to let him come in after the preseason much like he did last year.

Yeah, I don't think the team would have a problem with it.  I just have seen too many guys just randomly decide to retire in training camp, that I am not going to count on anyone until they are actually on the field in a regular season game. 

I am also concerned with Vollmer staying healthy. 

Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 11:52:53 AM »

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I think it is a question mark about Waters coming back.
If Mankins and Vollmer can contribute, the Pats O-Line should be okay, but the depth is pretty thin.
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Re: 2012 Patriots Football
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2012, 12:08:34 PM »

Offline Jon

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I have a number of thoughts:

1) I don't think Plaxico fits here.  Quite simply, unless there's an injury, I don't see him playing here.  Gronk, Hernandez, Lloyd, and Welker should be in for 85%+ of the team's offensive possessions next season, which leaves one spot for running back or a fifth receiver.  Considering that we'll often have a RB on the field, that leaves very little time for Plaxico.  And I'm not so sure a guy like him can handle so little PT.  Just look what happened with Ochocinco.  I'd rather keep guys like Gaffney and Stallworth who know the system.  They'll be much more likely to fit in and be ready for a larger role when called upon.

2) Offensive line should already be better next game with the return of Mankins.  As long as Vollmer is healthy by the time the season starts, I think we're fine with Solder at LT, Mankins at LG, Vollmer at RT, and then either Koppen at C and Connolly at RG (that's where he started last season before Koppen got hurt) or Connolly at C and either Wendell or Cannon at RG.  Water would obviously be huge, but as long as Vollmer and Mankins are healthy, I think we'll be fine.  Remember, Koppen and Connolly were both starters opening day last year.

3) I don't get the whole fullback thing that McDaniels is doing here.  Besides being a dying position in the NFL, it doesn't seem to make sense to carry any of the guys we have from a talent position.  I think the much better idea, and perhaps what they'll ultimately do, is continue to play Hernandez and perhaps even Gronk, in the backfield in a fullback position.  This does a variety of interesting things.  Not only is it hard for defenses to read, it also is a way that the Pats can carve out more time for 3 receivers will still having someone in the backfield as a blocker.  I also like Gronk as a lead blocker from the backfield with either Ridley or Vereen.  I just don't see how Kettani or Larsen are really going to be an asset when we could keep an extra player someone else and just let the TEs do it.