Author Topic: Rockets S&T  (Read 5858 times)

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Rockets S&T
« on: July 08, 2012, 09:05:04 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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What would we have to give up in a sign-and-trade for Courtney Lee and Marcus Camby from the Rockets? That would knock out our two biggest needs right away.

Could we do Stiemer, JJJ, and a future first or the OKC second rounder?

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 09:06:15 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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i hope we dont part with sully... JJJ hasnt gotten a fair shake either, he's a stretch 4 that needs defensive work and could be a valuable asset down the road.

hope its just future draft picks.

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 09:11:14 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Nothing is going to work unless it is a 3-way including the Heat.  Something where Ray and probably Camby go to Miami, Lee plus something comes to us, and Miami has to make it worth Houston's while with probably Anthony and picks.

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 09:30:33 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Sign Courtney Lee.

S&T Stiemsma and OKC 2nd for Camby.

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 09:40:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Sign Courtney Lee.

S&T Stiemsma and OKC 2nd for Camby.

Neither is likely to happen.

The most Stiemer is going to bring back in a S&T is around $1.6 million, and that's if both teams are under the tax.  That's not enough for Camby, who wants at least the $3 million Taxpayer's MLE, reportedly.  As for Lee, he reportedly wants in excess of the full MLE, i.e, $5 million per year.

A S&T for Lee that works is Dooling + Williams + Moore + cash.  I don't think we'd realistically be able to add Camby to that in a way that makes sense.


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Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 09:42:28 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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In order to S&T steamer he needs to agree to what we can pay, which isn't much. Also Camby and Lee would have to agree to contracts that fit, which will be a pretty low amount of money.

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Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 09:58:26 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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dooling, williams, jjj, moore will work $ wise to bring back around 8 mill, which may enough for lee and camby. Would have to add picks ofcourse and might need a third team to take JJJ and preferably pay something for him, a high likely 2nd rounder or late first, as houston has drafted about 4 power forwards in the last 3 years and may have no interest in him.

Think dallas is a better target for a s&t as there looking to preserve cap space and acquire assets for terry or terry/carter or terry/mahinmi.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 10:10:53 PM by goCeltics »

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2012, 10:31:33 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Not sure how much we can sign and trade Dooling for - should be 3-4 million at least. (Dooling,  Sean Williams, JJJ, Moore)*125%+100k gets you pretty close to 8 million, with only about 4m committed. So can you set up a deal where Camby (3m) and Lee (5m) get what they want? Maybe - especially if Lee is OK going Posey (one year then payday) and Camby is OK taking a third year to get his average salary up.

So Houston has to take 4m in salary (they can decline all options), but get 3m in the deal. So they take one million in net - if they like anyone in the deal, you might not have send anything else, but more likely you'd have to send an asset - maybe a choice of next years first or CHA's second unprotected, Melo, or a future pick protected. Maybe AB.

Rotation ends up

Rondo / Terry
Lee / Terry
Pierce / Green
Bass / Green / Sullinger
KG / Camby

with AB (if not traded - otherwise some other defensive specialist) and Mello (if not traded - otherwise some other third string center) getting some burn.



Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2012, 10:43:41 PM »

Offline Who

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Daryl Morey wants expiring contracts + draft pick(s).

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2012, 10:46:26 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Daryl Morey wants expiring contracts + draft pick(s).
Going to take Charlotte's second at a minimum to get Lee, Morey will probably demand a first.

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 10:48:04 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Daryl Morey wants expiring contracts + draft pick(s).
Which the C's can do IMO.

How would you feel about S&Ts for Camby/Lee - where we gave up AB and next years first round pick? (Assuming expendable guys like JJJ, Melo, Moore, and Dooling make up rest of salary.)

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2012, 11:06:49 PM »

Offline Who

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Daryl Morey wants expiring contracts + draft pick(s).
Which the C's can do IMO.

How would you feel about S&Ts for Camby/Lee - where we gave up AB and next years first round pick? (Assuming expendable guys like JJJ, Melo, Moore, and Dooling make up rest of salary.)


Not trading Bradley without getting at least a low-level star in return.

Showed too much potential late last season to trade him for anything less. I would only consider moving him for role player(s) if Bradley failed to reproduce comparable performances next season.

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2012, 11:20:43 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Daryl Morey wants expiring contracts + draft pick(s).
Which the C's can do IMO.

How would you feel about S&Ts for Camby/Lee - where we gave up AB and next years first round pick? (Assuming expendable guys like JJJ, Melo, Moore, and Dooling make up rest of salary.)


Not trading Bradley without getting at least a low-level star in return.

Showed too much potential late last season to trade him for anything less. I would only consider moving him for role player(s) if Bradley failed to reproduce comparable performances next season.
Hmmm... 6'1" SG with two bum shoulders.

What's his upside? Best case is a guard version of Tony Allen (TA is the SG/SF version), with a bit more ball handling and shooting? Isn't he ideal playing net to a big PG, where they can cross match with opposing teams?

I'd rather not trade him, but not convinced he'll be better than Lee, who is entering his prime years, doesn't have the injury concern (that I know of), and is an ideal SG (stylistically) to play next to Rondo.

So what am I missing about AB (maybe I'm too pessimistic about his size limiting his effective minutes, his injury, or hi 3pt shooting being good enough to compliment Rondo)? I'm asking seriously because while he was very good, there are some serious concerns there IMO.

Also what's your read on Lee?


Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 11:35:10 PM »

Offline Who

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Daryl Morey wants expiring contracts + draft pick(s).
Which the C's can do IMO.

How would you feel about S&Ts for Camby/Lee - where we gave up AB and next years first round pick? (Assuming expendable guys like JJJ, Melo, Moore, and Dooling make up rest of salary.)


Not trading Bradley without getting at least a low-level star in return.

Showed too much potential late last season to trade him for anything less. I would only consider moving him for role player(s) if Bradley failed to reproduce comparable performances next season.
Hmmm... 6'1" SG with two bum shoulders.

What's his upside? Best case is a guard version of Tony Allen (TA is the SG/SF version), with a bit more ball handling and shooting? Isn't he ideal playing net to a big PG, where they can cross match with opposing teams?

I'd rather not trade him, but not convinced he'll be better than Lee, who is entering his prime years, doesn't have the injury concern (that I know of), and is an ideal SG (stylistically) to play next to Rondo.

So what am I missing about AB (maybe I'm too pessimistic about his size limiting his effective minutes, his injury, or hi 3pt shooting being good enough to compliment Rondo)? I'm asking seriously because while he was very good, there are some serious concerns there IMO.

Also what's your read on Lee?



I am not totally convinced by Bradley either but he showed enough to make very hesitant to include him in any trade packages that doesn't net Boston an impact player.

-----------------------------------

Courtney Lee = above average defender and well rounded and highly skilled complementary offensive player. Solid but unexceptional athlete.

Can be an above average backup two guard (top ten) to solid starter (17th-25th range out of 30 starters, below average but solid).

Lee's lack of physical strength/size and inability to check bigger twos limits his value as defensive stopper and starter + his lack of possession creation (rebounds, forcing turnovers) further limits his impact as a role player. Those two reasons are why Courtney Lee is not an elite or even high level role player (like a James Posey or a Shane Battier when they were younger).

------------------------------------------

Avery Bradley was an impact player for Boston late in the regular season.

Whether he can maintain that or not, I am not sure ... but I desperately want to find out and the only way I'd forgo that is if someone else offered me a sure-fire impact player (above average starter, preferably top ten at his position).

Bradley played stellar defense (his physical toughness and elite athleticism helping him defend guys bigger than him) and did a great job of limiting his opponent and supplying team defense + was a hugely efficient complementary scorer on offense (was up over 60% TS% when he started alongside Rondo, up over 65% towards the end but some hot-shooting likely inflated that). Like Lee, wasn't much of a possession creator (weak rebounder, very good at creating turnovers).

His shot-selection was hugely impressive. He created so many high percentage shot attempts with those fastbreak baskets, weak-side and baseline cuts and corner threes. There is a good reason there to believe that Bradley can continue to be a highly efficient complementary scorer in the future.

Unlike Courtney Lee who has a much higher proportion of medium-to-good percentage shot attempts instead of high percentage shot attempts (which combined with minimal FTAs makes it tough for Lee to be a highly efficient -- good efficiency, yes. great efficiency, very hard -- why Lee has had a below average TS% in three of his four seasons and was only a good-rated scoring efficiency in Orlando despite all the opportunities there for high percentage attempts).

Plus, with Bradley's explosive quickness, there is always the possibility of him improving as a shot-creator and getting to the rim off the dribble. And he was also showing a bit more confidence as a passer too which should continue to improve with time.

-----------------------------------

Again, I am not completely sold on Bradley either ... but there is too much there for me to trade him for guys like Courtney Lee and (an old) Marcus Camby.

Re: Rockets S&T
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2012, 11:50:33 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Thanks.

Have to wonder if playing next to Rondo and in Boston's D system makes Lee look better (or made AB look better.)

Hopefully the Celts can get Lee and keep AB. Although I think that AB is heading for a Tony Allen in 2008 type year in 2013.

- signs of breakout? check.
- coming off season ending injury? check.
- team going through big shake up in offseason? check.
- your role under advisement? check.
- rehab keeping you through training camp and start of season? check.
- new additions to your team creating a minutes crunch? check.
- team playing well and already has pretty good rotation down upon your return? TBD.

So I think either way we won't know about AB until 2013-4 season. Not sure I'd pass adding two important roll players to the team for the next 1-3 years of playoff runs just on that. Not sure I wouldn't either, just not sure I would.