Author Topic: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell  (Read 11564 times)

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Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2012, 04:17:24 PM »

Offline Chelm

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I don't know how KG compares to Russell as I never watched Russell play. But I'll say this, KG (Pierce is automatically on the list)is the closest thing I've seen in Celtic uniform that compares favorable to, in different ways, Cowens and Bird in Celtic lore.

Also:

1. If KG had arrived in Boston as a youngster - he'd be in Russell and Bird's company in accomplishments

2. Heck, if KG arrived here at 27, along with Pierce and Ray, I think we'd be looking at probably 6-8 titles by now.

People forget McHale, Bird and Parish got together young and they pulled off only three rings playing together in their prime. Our current big three started basically past their prime and were 12 minutes away from two titles and are sniffing around the door at one this year.

It's somewhat off topic but can you imagine KG, Ray and Pierce all getting together at the same times in their careers as did Bird, McHale and Parish?

Russell had way more help on a lot of those championship teams than KG, and for that matter, Pierce have had in the majority of their prime years. Particularly for KG and pretty much for Pierce as well, they toiled away on very mediocre teams for the majority of their prime.

KG is a legendary player - had he had the right talent around him, he'd probably have earned 5-8 titles. By the right talent I mean something a long the lines of:

1. Center - even a Perkins type center
2. KG
3. Pierce
4. Sub all star off guard
5. border line all star point

Not uber talent - just one legit Robin to his batman and good complimentary pieces around him.

Russell had Cousy, Hondo, Heinsohn.
Kobe had Shaq and a very good Pau Gasol at the time.
Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Duncan had Robinson, then Parker and Ginobli
Bird had McHale...

I think KG is in the conversation with Russell as a "player" in the history of the NBA, he just doesn't have the titles and Russell separates himself because of it.

If Russell played on crap teams for 12 of his 15 seasons and only won one title would he be spoken of today as he is? No, he'd be spoken of as one of the best ever, same as KG is now, but not as "the Legend"...

In heart, spirit, desire, passion, talent and performance - I'd like to think KG is in Russell's ball park.

IMHO   


I think this goes without saying; if you take any hall of fame bound trio (big man, guard, forward) and put them on one team for their careers, you had better be competing for championships.

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2012, 04:25:28 PM »

Offline Moranis

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6) This year does remind me of 1969; an aging past champion chasing younger more talented opponents with savvy, guts and tenacity.
Which team were the Celtics chasing that fit that description?  It certainly wasn't the Lakers who were just as old.  The Knicks, maybe, but they were too young to really be a threat to the Celtics or Lakers (that season).  It was definitely not the Sixers who had no where near the talent. 
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Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2012, 12:16:47 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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Oh come on.  There are three, maybe four players I'd put on Russell's level or higher.


But Kevin is very Russell like.  Super elite defensive orientated bigman who is a great leader, very savvy, very passionate, teammates love him, and represents everything you want in a Celtic.


Kevin is not as great as Russell was, but he's certainly Bill Russell-like.


I would be okay with retiring his number.

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2012, 12:22:20 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think it was Tom Curran Last year said on WEEI that if you put Sheldon Williams on the floor back in the league with Bill Russel he would be as good as bill russell just because of his size and athleticism relative to the other players on the floor.
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Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2012, 12:38:09 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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I think it was Tom Curran Last year said on WEEI that if you put Sheldon Williams on the floor back in the league with Bill Russel he would be as good as bill russell just because of his size and athleticism relative to the other players on the floor.

I think it was Tom Curran who forgot that Bill Russell was an elite high jumper.

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2012, 12:41:00 PM »

Offline wahz

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I think it was Tom Curran Last year said on WEEI that if you put Sheldon Williams on the floor back in the league with Bill Russel he would be as good as bill russell just because of his size and athleticism relative to the other players on the floor.

I think it was Tom Curran who forgot that Bill Russell was an elite high jumper.

yep. Name an NBA player, 6 10 or taller who high jumped over 6 10 with minimal training. There has only been one, Bill Russell

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2012, 12:42:38 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I think it was Tom Curran Last year said on WEEI that if you put Sheldon Williams on the floor back in the league with Bill Russel he would be as good as bill russell just because of his size and athleticism relative to the other players on the floor.

I think it was Tom Curran who forgot that Bill Russell was an elite high jumper.

This is the team that won the league the year before Russell joined.  Looks like some stiff competition...

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Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2012, 02:08:18 PM »

Offline td450

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6) This year does remind me of 1969; an aging past champion chasing younger more talented opponents with savvy, guts and tenacity.
Which team were the Celtics chasing that fit that description?  It certainly wasn't the Lakers who were just as old.  The Knicks, maybe, but they were too young to really be a threat to the Celtics or Lakers (that season).  It was definitely not the Sixers who had no where near the talent. 

In the 69 playoffs, Wilt was 2 1/2 years younger than Russell, and 32 during these playoffs. He averaged a 20/20 that year. Jerry West was 31. Since he averaged 31 points a game the following year, we can assume he was still in his prime. Elgin Baylor was only 6 months younger than Russell, but he did average 25 a game that year, so he wasn't washed up either. They had three of the top 20 players of all-time still in their primes.

The only key New York player not in their prime yet was Walt Frazier, who was a 2nd year player. Reed and DeBusschere were established stars. Bill Bradley, Cazzie Russell and Dick Barnett were all experienced, big time players. It's hard to buy the idea that they were too young.
 
No matter how many teams are in the league, it always boils down to three or four teams that have any chance at all. We know this because teams with less than 50 wins have won the title only twice in the last 50 years, and even those teams had some spectacular players.

What Russell did will never be duplicated.

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 05:46:10 AM »

fitzhickey

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nowhere near Bill Russell, but as close as you will ever find this day and age is my guess

definitely agree, Russell was a GOD  ::)

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 05:29:43 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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It is WAAAAY easier to win when you are 1 of 8 teams than when you are 1 of 30. That is simple math. You can expect to win once every 8 years on average. There is less competition for titles. (That is ignoring the reality that some of the 8 teams didn't have the financial means to be interested in winning).

The # of rounds in the playoffs makes things harder today because there are more chances for upsets, even if build a dominant team.

Also, there is no reason to make your assumptions about the distribution of talent. There is no reason to assume an even distribution of talent with only 8 teams. There is also no reason to think that just because a team is guaranteed that all players on their team will be top 100 players (with 8 teams and rosters about 12 deep) that the team would be competitive. Look at all star games the enormous gap between the best players on the team and the worst. It is probably safe to say that all of the players on the 2 all star teams are probably top 50 in the league in 2012.  Yet we can think of many ways that we can split the ASG players into two teams where one is far inferior to the other.

Morons logic.

The talent was much better divided, and instead of having a bunch of completely worthless scrub teams, you have a league of contenders.  Just because there is no guarantee it will be perfectly even doesn't mean todays league is any better, or for that matter, even close to the same parity, because there really isn't.  The best player on the Bobcats wouldn't be a starter on a championship team, probably would be third man off the bench for that matter.  The league now is completely unbalanced and there is ZERO parity.  When the Heat and Bobcats play, it's not a matter of who will win, but by how much the Heat will win.  The league needs to get rid of 5 teams because right now the talent well is just too thin to support a 30 team league.

Are you seriously trying to argue that more upsets happen now?  Right now we already know who are LOCKS to be in the conference finals barring injury.  There are four teams competing for a championship this season, we already know who they are and we haven't even played a preseason game yet.  There is no such thing as a series upset in todays NBA.  If you're extremely lucky, you might win 2 games if you're a true underdog. 

Re: Kevin Garnett 2012 Compared to Bill Russell
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2012, 08:59:11 PM »

Offline syfy9

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I'd say they're closer than the titles would lead you to believe. It really needs to be remembered that there were only 8 or 9 teams in the entire league when Russell won his titles. The amount of talent in the league today is absolutely miles ahead of where it was back then. Was Russell great? Definitely. However, KG is also great, and it's simply harder to win titles in a league with 30 teams.

No that actually has the opposite effect. If there are 30 teams instead of 8, that means the league is more watered down. Just look at the Miami Heat with Wade, Lebron, and Bosh on the same team in their primes. If the teams shrink to 8, there would be 8 Miami Heats in the league

Imagine if the 50 best players were all on only 8 teams. That would make all the 8 teams have talented players 15 deep on their roster. Like teams having the talent of Tyson Chandler starting at the 5, Kevin Love, Rudy Gay, James Harden, and Tony Parker all on the same team. It would be harder for teams to even repeat with all the 8 teams having that much talent

If you look at those 60's teams, all of the teams had at least 2 or 3 hall of famers on 1 team.. you can't say the same for teams today

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