Author Topic: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer  (Read 26296 times)

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #270 on: January 08, 2013, 12:54:19 PM »

Offline relja

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So, we win one game w/o the best point guard in the league and we want to trade him. Real "fans".

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #271 on: January 08, 2013, 12:58:18 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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So, we win one game w/o the best point guard in the league and we want to trade him. Real "fans".
It helps if you read the thread to understand the context better, this thread was started long ago. Or even look at the recent replies.

Also accusations about fanhood are not allowed. We're all fans here, no attacking others "creditials".

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #272 on: January 08, 2013, 01:03:53 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So, we win one game w/o the best point guard in the league

We've won 17 games without the best point guard in the league.  He plays in LA. ;)


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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #273 on: January 08, 2013, 01:30:25 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you're resigning KG then you're playing to win now. If you just get KG/Pierce/Rondo/Rooks/+vet min guys then why did you bother to sign KG? Once we signed KG the cap room we had in 3 guys (Rondo/Pierce/KG) meant that to field a contending team around them = no cap space.

You wanted to blow it up, trade Rondo/Pierce, and let KG walk we get it.
I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year.  I think Boston could have then brought back Pietrus and Daniels on a 1 year deal instead of Lee and Allen and still signed Barbosa instead of Terry.  Boston still could have brought in Darko, and made plays for Kenyon Martin, the Birdman, maybe bring Stiemer back, etc., and put together a fine team that wouldn't be much (or any) worse than the current team, but one that wouldn't be saddled with nearly 30 million dollars of garbage for the 13/14 and 14/15 seasons (not to mention another 16 million in 15/16).
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #274 on: January 08, 2013, 02:42:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #275 on: January 08, 2013, 03:09:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.
I think if Boston would have given Green a 1 yr, 12 million dollar contract there is a very good chance he takes that as quite simply he wasn't getting a lot of looks anywhere else and certainly from no one willing to pay more than the MLE (which was what 3 yrs, 16 million or so total).  Bass may have been a bit trickier, but if you give him 8 or 9 million for 1 year, I still think there is a pretty good chance he takes that.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #276 on: January 08, 2013, 03:11:19 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think they demand contracts with player options, similar to what Mayo/Posey/etc have done.

Young players like that aren't going for short term "make good" deals like you assume they'd take unless they don't have other options too.

Do you think that Bass/Green/Lee/Terry didn't have options? Or that veteran minimum or guys willing to take one year overpays would just sign on for a one year go of it?

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #277 on: January 08, 2013, 03:24:01 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Young players like that aren't going for short term "make good" deals like you assume they'd take unless they don't have other options too.


Especially after they just experienced how fragile their own mortality really is.

And I seriously doubt Green didn't have other options.


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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #278 on: January 08, 2013, 03:50:16 PM »

Online BballTim

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I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.
I think if Boston would have given Green a 1 yr, 12 million dollar contract there is a very good chance he takes that as quite simply he wasn't getting a lot of looks anywhere else and certainly from no one willing to pay more than the MLE (which was what 3 yrs, 16 million or so total).

  You don't have any idea whether this is true or not, and unless you have a reasonable explanation for why Ainge would pay close to double what Green could get anywhere else it's not really a viable theory.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #279 on: January 08, 2013, 04:48:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think they demand contracts with player options, similar to what Mayo/Posey/etc have done.

Young players like that aren't going for short term "make good" deals like you assume they'd take unless they don't have other options too.

Do you think that Bass/Green/Lee/Terry didn't have options? Or that veteran minimum or guys willing to take one year overpays would just sign on for a one year go of it?
I'm sure Lee and Terry did for similar money, which is why I didn't mention them, I just wouldn't have signed them at all.  Not worth the money or years for what they provide.

Bass probably did, but not at more than the MLE.  He might have been able to get more in a sign and trade if it could have been worked out.  But had he been given 1 year, 9 million, I think that is a gamble he might have taken as opposed to a 3 yr, 16 million total contract.  That said if Bass would have left, then a guy like Blatche was certainly available to fill in (and might just be a better player anyway).

I think Ainge really liked Green and wanted to ensure he didn't leave so he overpaid early in the process to ensure he didn't look elsewhere.  Of course I'm not sure where exactly elsewhere was.  I mean what team with cap space was going to break the bank on Jeff Green.  I think Boston could have thrown out a big 1 year contract early and then just watched the process and adjusted as necessary, I just don't think that was in the cards.

And for the record had Green left there were plenty of other options out there.  I mean just look at Dallas, claimed Elton Brand for 2.1 million, signed Kaman 1 yr 8 million, signed Mayo for 4 million the first year with a player option at 4.2 next year, among other moves, and that is just Dallas.  To act like Boston couldn't have fielded a competitive team is utterly ridiculous.  Of course not near as ridiculous as signing the 4 man flotsam for nearly 30 million dollars a year for at least 3 years.  That is way beyond ridiculous and frankly I can't believe so many people on here defend those signings.

Put it this way, would a team with Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Brand, Garnett, Mayo, Blatche, Sullinger, Pietrus, Wilcox, Barbosa, Collins, Melo, and Daniels be any worse than the team out there now.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #280 on: January 08, 2013, 05:45:56 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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KEEP RONDO!

Trade some of the other guys (Lee, Bass or Terry) or sign and amnesty player when the other teams cut them.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #281 on: January 11, 2013, 11:23:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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KEEP RONDO!

Trade some of the other guys (Lee, Bass or Terry) or sign and amnesty player when the other teams cut them.
that is all good if we were living in Imagination Land where fantasy's and dreams come true, but back here in reality those guys all have negative value, which means if you trade them you are getting back something of pretty similar worth unless you part ways with real value in the process.  Boston has exactly 5 assets of varying degrees of value (aside from future draft picks): Pierce, Garnett, Rondo, Bradley, and Sullinger.  That is it.  Rondo has the highest value and thus makes the most sense to trade (for other reasons as well).
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #282 on: January 11, 2013, 11:55:37 AM »

Offline ssspence

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I think Green and Bass would have signed 1 year deals as I don't think they had much interest out there.  It might have cost Boston a bit more in that 1 year, but I think both of them would have been ok with a 1 year deal for pretty darn good money with a shot to try again in free agency next year. 
This premise is ridiculous.

If Danny could have signed Green for more money and one year he would have because he could have given him any amount of money up to the max to ensure that one year deal. Fact is Green's agent would never have allowed it as the long term security of four years and $9 million per year is a lot more valuable and a sure thing than a one year, prove it to me contract.

Same holds true for Bass. The agents I am sure both could have found multi year contracts outside of Boston for their players that would have made taking a one year deal from Boston a non factor in making a contract decision.

Re: Bass, I'm sure you're right.

I suspect in Green's case, it was fuzzier. Not sure how many teams in the league are giving guys coming off open heart surgery 4 year, $40mil deals -- particularly ones who it would be hard to argue would be worth that if they hadn't just had such a major procedure.

Agents bluff more often than they tell the truth. Sometimes they succeed. As I recall, Green's agent said they had 'strong interest' from '12-14 teams'. Even that phrasing sounds like you-know-what...

Regardless, his deal has (rightly) been panned thus far. Sometimes, you have to walk away, even if another, less disciplined team is willing to overpay.

It's nice to fantasize about Green's potential, but it's pretty hard to imagine him making the leap to a $9mil player in today's NBA.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #283 on: January 11, 2013, 12:10:18 PM »

Offline RyNye

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That is it.  Rondo has the highest value and thus makes the most sense to trade (for other reasons as well).

Who can we get for Rondo that is actually an upgrade? All of the players in the league that are clearly better than Rondo aren't on the trading block (Chris Paul, Lebron, etc.). Anyone we will get for Rondo at this point will be a downgrade, because there are so few players in the league that are better than Rondo that are actually available.

It makes absolutely no sense to trade our best player, especially now as rebuilding is looming.

Ideally, we want to keep Rondo, and for Avery Bradley and Sullinger to continue developing at the pace they have been.

But please, tell me what magical trade is out there that will get us a better player than Rondo. Because Cousin's isn't better than Rondo, not at this point in their respective careers.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #284 on: January 11, 2013, 12:22:01 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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To compare rondo to cousins is nothing short of ridiculous. They play two completely different positions.

 

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