Author Topic: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer  (Read 61415 times)

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #210 on: May 22, 2012, 11:31:04 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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At this point, I now want to see Rondo plus a bunch of scrubs post Big-Three just to see how good he really would do in that situation.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #211 on: May 22, 2012, 11:43:46 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Steve Nash also made about what Rondo made this past season.  Now granted he is old and on the downside, but if you are talking about value, how is that for a 2 time MVP that is still performing.

Westbrook is about 2 million more per year than Rondo, and given his overall scoring prowess, I'd take him over Rondo every day of the week and wouldn't look back (same with Kevin Love).

Bargnani is more than a million less per year than Rondo, and while Rondo is better, he isn't so much better that the value is crazy. 

Rondo has a great contract, no doubt, but it is just silly to argue that there aren't other great contracts out there.  That just isn't true.  Plenty of all star level players, have great contracts.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #212 on: May 22, 2012, 11:59:32 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.



Lowry + 1st for Rondo. That's the deal right there.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #213 on: May 22, 2012, 12:07:17 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.



Lowry + 1st for Rondo. That's the deal right there.

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #214 on: May 22, 2012, 12:13:56 PM »

Offline contramundum

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« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 12:24:37 PM by contramundum »

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #215 on: May 22, 2012, 12:16:58 PM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #216 on: May 22, 2012, 12:29:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #217 on: May 22, 2012, 12:36:00 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #218 on: May 22, 2012, 12:44:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #219 on: May 22, 2012, 12:46:30 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
A SF who has to play C on the defensive end, which is a big problem because he's really bad at everything but 1 on 1 post defense.

His offensive value is offset by his defensive liabilities, Dirk lite with worse team defense.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #220 on: May 22, 2012, 02:08:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
A SF who has to play C on the defensive end, which is a big problem because he's really bad at everything but 1 on 1 post defense.

His offensive value is offset by his defensive liabilities, Dirk lite with worse team defense.
Apt comparison, but put Dirk lite on a team with better teammates, and he can be very valuable. 

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #221 on: May 22, 2012, 02:17:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.


Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #222 on: May 22, 2012, 02:20:34 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Bargnani, are you kidding me?

Heh, the one 7-footer who might actually be a worse rebounder than Ryan Hollins.
Nope, at least not by rebound rate.  Of course Bargnani is a SF and a pretty solid scorer.
A SF who has to play C on the defensive end, which is a big problem because he's really bad at everything but 1 on 1 post defense.

His offensive value is offset by his defensive liabilities, Dirk lite with worse team defense.
Apt comparison, but put Dirk lite on a team with better teammates, and he can be very valuable. 
So was Troy Murphy for a period of time. Bargs is a role player who gives up as much defensive and on the glass as he scores, but he's paid like an all-star. That's a problem for any team winning with him on the roster.

Dirk lite could work if he wasn't Dirk lite in every aspect of the game. He scores worse, defends worse, and boards worse than 33 year old Dirk let alone young Dirk....

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #223 on: May 22, 2012, 02:57:45 PM »

Offline Potapenko Boxout

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.




Rondo for Mike Conley and OJ Mayo? Come on. Let's start banning people `

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #224 on: May 22, 2012, 03:09:11 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.

Tony Parker is also 30, and the Spurs are a much deeper and overall better team.

Mike Conleys  are a dime a dozen, he isn't even in the same conversation as Rondo. Downgrading Rondo for Conley would make us a much worse team both now and in the future. Value for price at his talent level is not difficult to find, and Lowry isn't a whole lot better. An all-star point guard who leads the league in assists and can dominate both ends of the floor while making less money than every other all-star who isn't on their rookie contract is not easy to find.

Bargnani, are you kidding me? Westbrook is also in line for a max deal. Of course there are other good contracts out there, but find me one which is BETTER than Rondo's.
that is Westbrook's new contract.  Starts at just under 13 million next year, goes up about a million per year, while Rondo is at just over 11 million next year and goes up about a million per year.  And Westbrook is locked up longer than Rondo is.  Westbrook and Kevin Love (who has the exact same contract) have a better contract than Rondo for what they bring to the table.

Sure Conley is worse than Rondo, but no one suggested the Celtics should trade Rondo for Conley straight up.  The Celtics would be getting other pieces in the trade, draft picks and/or young players (or maybe Mayo if he would sign a reasonable long term deal).  I mean Conley and Mayo would provide more production on a similar salary as Rondo (unless Mayo is grossly overpaid). 

  The team that gets the best player generally wins the trade. Sending Rondo away for a couple of halfway decent players is going in the wrong direction for the team.



Not to mention how you get stuck in NBA purgatory.  Low lottery/7-8 seed territory.


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