Author Topic: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer  (Read 83577 times)

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2012, 03:46:41 PM »

Offline alajet

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Please tell me that you don't want to trade Rondo for Smith, someone who blew up a fast break by a foolish double-handed dunk attempt. That tells you something about Smith's will to win.
Well, I guess adding Howard somehow could have been a bonus, but he's hardly the team player you're looking for.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2012, 04:06:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Smith and Rondo are buddies.  So it makes no sense to get him and not keep Rondo.  Howard is a bad back now and damaged goods.


I would not trade Dooling for Calderon, definitely not, Rondo.  Those trades are beyond stink they are offensive.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2012, 04:32:02 PM »

Offline snively

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8

Would you?  Which of those offers constitutes fair value for an all-star at the beginning of his prime?
I'd certainly do the Memphis and Utah trades.  Depending on what I thought would be on the board at 8, 10, and 11, I might do those trades as well. 

Deron Williams fetched Harris, Favors (a more valuable prospect than Hayward), the pick that became Kanter (also more valuable than Hayward) and the GSW lottery pick (probably a little better value than Hayward).

Rondo's not quite as valuable as D-Will, but we're not talking about a gap that's almost 3 high lottery picks big. 
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2012, 05:05:23 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear? 

You can't win a championship with a single star.  It doesn't matter if you keep Rondo or trade him for a different player if the Celtics still have only one star, so asking what happens if the Celtics are down to Rondo and a bunch of scrubs because everyone retires is a meaningless question. 

So, the Celtics should be trying to find replacement scorers.  That's what you do when the Big Three retire.  I personally favor the idea of finding a good stretch four so that you can surround Rondo with three players who can hit threes with good shot selection while not being defensive liabilities. 
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2012, 05:06:19 PM »

Offline thestackshow

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Rondo can shoot now by the way, no clue why people are saying he is "a very limited offensive player"

Last time I checked the only knock on him was "shooting" now he takes loads of jumpers and makes them every game, so he can "shoot" now.

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2012, 05:08:15 PM »

Offline thestackshow

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I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear? 

You can't win a championship with a single star.  It doesn't matter if you keep Rondo or trade him for a different player if the Celtics still have only one star, so asking what happens if the Celtics are down to Rondo and a bunch of scrubs because everyone retires is a meaningless question. 

So, the Celtics should be trying to find replacement scorers.  That's what you do when the Big Three retire.  I personally favor the idea of finding a good stretch four so that you can surround Rondo with three players who can hit threes with good shot selection while not being defensive liabilities. 

If Rondo was on the Warriors he would average 20 assists a game. The Warriors as a team suck, but every single one of their players is a great shooter.

The Celtics play really slow, that leads to less possessions and less chance for Rondo to get assists.

If he was on a team that Ran, he would get 10 assists a game just off fast breaks alone...
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2012, 05:14:38 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear? 

You can't win a championship with a single star.  It doesn't matter if you keep Rondo or trade him for a different player if the Celtics still have only one star, so asking what happens if the Celtics are down to Rondo and a bunch of scrubs because everyone retires is a meaningless question. 

So, the Celtics should be trying to find replacement scorers.  That's what you do when the Big Three retire.  I personally favor the idea of finding a good stretch four so that you can surround Rondo with three players who can hit threes with good shot selection while not being defensive liabilities. 

Trade him for Jose Calderon and a magic spell that ensures that Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett can play at super star levels forever. 
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2012, 05:33:26 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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did we need to trade KG when he was ejected and suspended in the first round 2 years ago?

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2012, 05:41:28 PM »

Offline alajet

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Deron Williams fetched Harris, Favors (a more valuable prospect than Hayward), the pick that became Kanter (also more valuable than Hayward) and the GSW lottery pick (probably a little better value than Hayward).

Rondo's not quite as valuable as D-Will, but we're not talking about a gap that's almost 3 high lottery picks big. 

That was a terrible trade looking from the Nets perspective.
Starter material in Harris, lost. A freaking potential in Favors, lost. Lottery pick, which became Kanter, who also has huge upside (not saying that just because he's my compatriot), lost.

And you get one of the best PGs in the league in return, if not the best. There is a very strong chance that he is also going to be gone anyway, so, Nets screwed it up big time.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2012, 06:46:15 PM »

Offline snively

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Deron Williams fetched Harris, Favors (a more valuable prospect than Hayward), the pick that became Kanter (also more valuable than Hayward) and the GSW lottery pick (probably a little better value than Hayward).

Rondo's not quite as valuable as D-Will, but we're not talking about a gap that's almost 3 high lottery picks big. 

That was a terrible trade looking from the Nets perspective.
Starter material in Harris, lost. A freaking potential in Favors, lost. Lottery pick, which became Kanter, who also has huge upside (not saying that just because he's my compatriot), lost.

And you get one of the best PGs in the league in return, if not the best. There is a very strong chance that he is also going to be gone anyway, so, Nets screwed it up big time.


The point is, that's what it took to get a young all-star PG with more than a year on his deal.

D-Will's more valuable, but it gives a ballpark for what Danny would be looking for in a Rondo deal if he wasn't getting a better player back (a la CP3).
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2012, 07:18:53 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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That was a terrible trade looking from the Nets perspective.

The Nets aren't know for making good trades.  For example, the Gerald Wallace trade seems to be universally criticized as stupid.

Maybe the best GM in the world is the one who can make the most trades with the Knicks and Nets.
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2012, 07:24:15 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I still just dont understand how anyone can justify trading a top 3 point guard in the league who averages over 11 assists per game! Like...What do you expect to get in return that values that? absurd.
These seem like fairly realistic trades, would you make any of them?

Rondo, 22 for Matthews, Smith, 11

Rondo for Conley, Cunningham, 25

Rondo, 22 for Jack, Aminu, 10

Rondo for Harris, Hayward

Rondo, 22 for Calderon, 8
they are realistic.  I've brought up the Calderon concept before.  The idea is that although Rondo is a fantastic distributor and 'setup guy', he's actually a fairly limited offensive player.  When you have a star like Paul Pierce playing at a star level, you actually don't necessarily NEED Rondo.  Pierce is comfortable having the ball flow through him... and he has a tendency to step his game up with Rondo out... which is why we won game 2 and why we had a winning record when Rondo sat this year.


  Any good/great scorer will "step up" when you give them the ball every time up the court. AI made a career of that. What matters is how the team's offense is. The offense is better when PP has the ball less and Rondo has it more.

I worry about how Rondo will perform when the guys he distributes the ball to (Ray, KG, and Pierce) retire.  What happens when he no longer has 3 hall-of-famers surrounding him... what happens when the Celtics ask him to be a primary scorer and the guy can't shoot... what happens when teams start doubling him like they do Rose, Chris Paul and Deron Williams?   Rondo is fantastic in his role right now, because he has elite scorers around him... but what happens when the elite scorers disappear?  

  Are you really worried about what will happen to Rondo's assist total when Ray's not playing? Because the answer seems to be "best in the league by a pretty wide margin". Rondo's assists seem to be just as plentiful when you take those "elite scorers" away. He also seems to be able to score more when one or more of the big three are out, and he also ups his scoring by quite a bit in the playoffs. So, while you may worry that Rondo's numbers will all drop without the big three, all evidence seems to point to the contrary. One thing seems to be fairly obvious though. If other teams double Rondo, he'll run away with the assist title.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:41:51 PM by BballTim »

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #162 on: May 05, 2012, 10:48:59 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Trade Rondo?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Somebody's smoking that wacky tabaccy.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #163 on: May 05, 2012, 03:12:25 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I don't worry about the Big Three retiring like some here.   Rondo makes people around him better.   He can affect a game in a myriad of ways.   What he can't do is dominate score and close games or shoot clutch free throws but he excels at passing, defense and rebounds.   The plusses far exceed the minuses with Rondo.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #164 on: May 05, 2012, 04:11:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't worry about the Big Three retiring like some here.   Rondo makes people around him better.   He can affect a game in a myriad of ways.   What he can't do is dominate score and close games or shoot clutch free throws but he excels at passing, defense and rebounds.   The plusses far exceed the minuses with Rondo.
I credit a lot of Bradley's success to being around and on the floor with Rondo.

Rondo knows where his teammates like the ball and delivers it there better perhaps than any guard in the league. He has befriended Bradley and gets Avery open looks at the corner three and at the foul line extended, areas Bradley has excelled at dropping shots in.

He also runs the floor excellently with Bradley and their ability to guard together is awesome.

Without Rondo's and Dooling's influence on Bradley this year, I don't think develops as quickly as he did. Gotta keep Rondo and Bradley and give them a couple of years to develop chemistry as a duo. Do that and in a couple of years and along with Harden/Westbrook, you might be looking at the best overall back court in the league.