Author Topic: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer  (Read 53070 times)

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #195 on: May 22, 2012, 10:12:33 AM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #196 on: May 22, 2012, 10:13:54 AM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
Most guys who make as much as he does are worse players, but there are many maxed out players who I'd take for him.

No doubt, but how many of those teams would be willing to trade those max players for him without us taking on bad contracts?

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #197 on: May 22, 2012, 10:14:06 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #198 on: May 22, 2012, 10:15:47 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


What Moranis means by coming out ahead long run is being bad for a few years and getting high lottery picks.

So when the young players need to get paid you've gotten two or three big time talents to pair with them.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #199 on: May 22, 2012, 10:18:40 AM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #200 on: May 22, 2012, 10:20:50 AM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


What Moranis means by coming out ahead long run is being bad for a few years and getting high lottery picks.

So when the young players need to get paid you've gotten two or three big time talents to pair with them.

The draft is an absolute crap shoot though, there's no guarantee we'd be ale to draft a player of his caliber with the picks we received.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #201 on: May 22, 2012, 10:24:05 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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It comes down to this.


If Ainge believes:

a)  He can or cannot build a team around Rondo.

b)  If Rondo value is maxed out now and will drop without KG, Ray and Pierce or Rondo's value will remain the same.

c)  Other teams value Rondo enough to give a package Ainge likes long term.





None of us can answer those questions.  Only Ainge can answer them. 

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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #202 on: May 22, 2012, 10:27:46 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume.  

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #203 on: May 22, 2012, 10:36:03 AM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume.  
\

Gasol signed a max deal this off season and Aldridge makes almost as much.

Tony Parker is a great player but he's also four years older and has a better resume because he's played with Tim Duncan on very good teams his entire career.

There really is not another player in the league who matches Rondo's production at his salary and age.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #204 on: May 22, 2012, 10:40:52 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume. 
\

Gasol signed a max deal this off season and Aldridge makes almost as much.

Tony Parker is a great player but he's also four years older and has a better resume because he's played with Tim Duncan on very good teams his entire career.

There really is not another player in the league who matches Rondo's production at his salary and age.

Aldridge is right around 12 this season I thought.

Kevin Love's pretty affordable at 14 starting next season. Pretty awesome deal.

But yeah, I'm not knocking that Rondo's age/salary structure make him extremely valuable. I am however saying that he's not untouchable.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #205 on: May 22, 2012, 10:48:08 AM »

Offline Josh88

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.

Iggy's the one guy I think is 'significantly more'.

But I stand by the talent thing..the rest of the guys are all somewhere in the 11's or 12's, but fill different needs, or play differently.

Tony Parker, for instance. Had a better year than Rondo, plays a very different style. Better resume. 
\

Gasol signed a max deal this off season and Aldridge makes almost as much.

Tony Parker is a great player but he's also four years older and has a better resume because he's played with Tim Duncan on very good teams his entire career.

There really is not another player in the league who matches Rondo's production at his salary and age.

Aldridge is right around 12 this season I thought.

Kevin Love's pretty affordable at 14 starting next season. Pretty awesome deal.

But yeah, I'm not knocking that Rondo's age/salary structure make him extremely valuable. I am however saying that he's not untouchable.

Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I don't think he's untouchable, I'm just saying he's an absolute bargain and it would be very difficult to receive comparable talent without taking on a good bit more money.

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #206 on: May 22, 2012, 11:05:04 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.


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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #207 on: May 22, 2012, 11:08:55 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Yes but he's still making $2M more per year than Rondo through this contract and I don't even consider him on Rondo's level. Love is making about $2.7M more per year which I believe is a max extension.

I think you're significantly underrating Aldridge. This season sucked but he's a baller.

Also, KYLE MOTHALOVING LOWERYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Absent a freak stomach virus that sidelined him a lot of the season, he was the leader of a team that looked like it was a playoff lock (until he went down), putting in 14 pts, 6.6 assists, 4.5 boards, 41% shooting (not great), 37.4% 3pt shooting (decent), 4.2 FTA's per game (at 86% shooting), and all in just 32 minutes.

Couple that with the fact that he's a all-nba level talent defensively and he is locked up for the next 3 years at like 17 million total or something (or right around 6 million per).

Kyle Lowry.


They were a playoff lock after he was gone too, they were a lock till they choked away 6 games in a row and went 2-7 over the last 9 games of the season.

They missed the playoffs by just two games!

Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #208 on: May 22, 2012, 11:26:50 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.
They could take on young players on their rookie contracts.  I proposed a number of trades I think Boston would consider and that the other team would consider that provide an opportunity for Boston to come out ahead long term.

They would have to be paid eventually too, and I can assure you in the long run we'd be paying far more for the level of production than we are with Rondo in any scenario you propose. He's an absolute steal, if Danny had waited one more year to sign him to an extension he'd be a max player. It baffles me how much some Celtics undervalue and under appreciate him. He has his flaws but he's the biggest bargain in the NBA.


What Moranis means by coming out ahead long run is being bad for a few years and getting high lottery picks.

So when the young players need to get paid you've gotten two or three big time talents to pair with them.
no actually I meant that the two or three assets actually acquired for Rondo exceed his value/production at some point in the future.  The players don't now, but might if they develop like they could.  
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Re: Celtics need to trade Rondo this summer
« Reply #209 on: May 22, 2012, 11:29:41 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Name one player in the NBA who isn't on their rookie contract and can match Rondo's production (3x all-star, league leader in APG, perennial all-defense selection) at his salary.

The Celtics could not possibly match his talent in a trade without taking on significantly more money, it just makes no sense at all.

I don't think anyone out there can do precisely what Rondo does at any contract number. He's a unique player.

But as far as comparable talent at comparable money, Igouadala, Aldridge, Monta Ellis, Horford, Bogut, Tony Parker, Marc Gasol, Josh Smith come to mind.

Some of those guys are more established, some are less, but I think their talent levels across the board (when healthy) are about comparable to Rondo's.

I'm sorry but there's not a player you listed who's locked in for as long as Rondo is at his salary and capable of matching his production. Some are making significantly more, others are nearing the end of their deals and I would take Rondo over every one of those players.
Tony Parker finished 5th in MVP voting this year (Rondo was 8th) and makes only a tiny bit more money than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (37.5 to 36).  

EDIT:  BTW, Mike Conley makes about 12 million less than Rondo over the next 3 seasons (and is signed for an extra year after that) and while he obviously isn't as talented as Rondo, he provides a lot of the things you would want in a PG, good shooter, good ball handler, good passer, good defender.  He doesn't have quite the all around talent of Rondo, but certainly has just as good of value for his price.
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