Ray gone after this season S&T (speculation)

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given recent developments with ray's health, i kind of doubt anybody will throw unreasonable money or a definite starter's role (and >32 mpg) his way. if they do, they're not very smart. as such, i think we have a decent shot of bringing ray back.

[slamtheking]

What other shooter do you think we could get for cheap who is any good?  Ray, Jamal Crawford, Lou Williams, and squat are what are available as unrestricted free agents.  Crawford and Williams are both volume scorers rather than good shooters.  I’d take Ray for two years from that bunch.

I'd take Pietrus over Ray if I have to choose between the two.  Pietrus is younger, better defender, can shoot from outside, drive to the basket and won't have an issue coming off the bench behind either bradley or PP.  Also, he'll be much cheaper so that money can be used on a frontcourt player this offseason.
Ideally, Moore develops at least into a quality 4th guard off the bench for next year so we don't have to worry much about FA SGs.  This is speculation on my part but Moore has shown he can score in this league.  it's now a matter of improving his ballhandling and defense.

[Marcus13]

I really doubt he's going to be involved in a S&T -- Just no motivation for him to do that. 

[Greg]

I really doubt he's going to be involved in a S&T -- Just no motivation for him to do that. 

There's no reason for him to be able to use his Bird rights for him to make more money on a team over the cap that is likely a contender?

[the_Bird]

I really doubt he's going to be involved in a S&T -- Just no motivation for him to do that. 

There's no reason for him to be able to use his Bird rights for him to make more money on a team over the cap that is likely a contender?

The Bird-rights issue is tricky, because if we're trying to maximize cap space, we're going to renounce everyone's Bird rights (otherwise, there are huge cap holds that basically mean we don't have any space).  But, since we're unlikely to spend cap space on new free agents (the FA crop is mediocre once you get past Deron Williams), we might *not* renounce everyone's Bird rights...  unless there's an opportunity to make a trade for someone, and now we need cap space.

It also comes down to what kinds of contract offers Ray is getting.  A few months ago, he looked like a guy likely to command something a fair amount above the MLE.  More recently...  not so much.  Some of that may be health-related (is Ray starting to show his age?)  Some of that may be skill-related (it does seem harder and harder for him to get free). 

If he's not getting an offer that's better that the MLE, there won't be any need for a S&T.

Also, gotta figure that the teams that could most use Ray Allen's services are Miami and Chicago.  If the C's still hold aspirations of competing next year, they're probably not going to be incline to facilitate Ray's signing.  And, I believe the C's will re-sign KG and keep both Pierce and Rondo, meaning that I think they're trying to reload on the fly.

[KGs Knee]

I really doubt he's going to be involved in a S&T -- Just no motivation for him to do that. 

There's no reason for him to be able to use his Bird rights for him to make more money on a team over the cap that is likely a contender?

Sure, but what would the motivation for the Celtics be?  Say Ray does find a contender that wishes to pay him more than the MLE.  In a S&T, the team we send Ray to would be required to send back relatively equal salary.  Who says they have any players worth 5m+ that we would have any interest in.

[FrDrake]

I really doubt he's going to be involved in a S&T -- Just no motivation for him to do that.  

The motivation for Ray would be he would get paid more than the MLE.

The motivation for the receiving team to pay that much would be highly dubious as many have pointed out.

I've mentioned this before but I'll try again regarding the never ending Ray to the Bulls ideas...Heinsohn has said that Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton apparently cannot stand one another.  If one visits UConn for an alumni/Huskies event the other does not.  I SERIOUSLY doubt the Bulls would sign Rip to a three year deal one year and then sign Ray the next.  They play the same position and are at the same stage of their career, i.e. probably over-the-hill but still effective veteran.  

Even if they LIKED each other it would cause problems in the locker room which the bulls do not need.  They would be much better off looking for a young SG to develop who would complement Rip when he is injured, banged up, or over-matched on D.

[pearljammer10]

I wouldnt be surprised to see an Allen for Mayo sign and trade swap. I wouldnt be opposed to that either... Mayo is a great 6th man, is younger, and would be able to be a great scorer off the bench as well as a good wing alongside Rondo.

[Fafnir]

I wouldnt be surprised to see an Allen for Mayo sign and trade swap. I wouldnt be opposed to that either... Mayo is a great 6th man, is younger, and would be able to be a great scorer off the bench as well as a good wing alongside Rondo.

I know I want my 6th man scoring at a .510 TS% when he's a poor rebounder, passer, and defender at the SG position!

You think 50 million would sign him......ugh Ben Gordon 2.0....without the .570 TS% seasons to even make it seem somewhat defensible.

[colincb]

What other shooter do you think we could get for cheap who is any good?  Ray, Jamal Crawford, Lou Williams, and squat are what are available as unrestricted free agents.  Crawford and Williams are both volume scorers rather than good shooters.  I’d take Ray for two years from that bunch.

I'd take Pietrus over Ray if I have to choose between the two.  Pietrus is younger, better defender, can shoot from outside, drive to the basket and won't have an issue coming off the bench behind either bradley or PP.  Also, he'll be much cheaper so that money can be used on a frontcourt player this offseason.

Ideally, Moore develops at least into a quality 4th guard off the bench for next year so we don't have to worry much about FA SGs.  This is speculation on my part but Moore has shown he can score in this league.  it's now a matter of improving his ballhandling and defense.

Pietrus is not and never has been a good outside shooter, has the worst shooting percentage on the team outside of Daniels, and his defensive rating is just a tad better than Ray's.  Driving to the hoop hasn't helped him much as he’s had exactly one “and 1” play all year and he’s a below average FT shooter to boot if he did draw more fouls.  Ray actually draws more fouls too contrary to your earlier claim, which make sense since no one wants to foul a jump shooter who shoots 38% from the field and 34% from beyond the arc as Pietrus has.  Despite your claims that Ray is solely a spot-up shooter, that’s actually a better description of Pietrus who has been a spot-up shooter 43% of the time this year compared to Ray’s 20% according to SynergySports stats.  That is Pietrus’s #1 play and he has been bad at it shooting 37% from the field and 36% from beyond the arc (vs Ray’s 50% for both 2s and 3s on spot-ups).
 
Lastly, if Ray walks for nothing, we do not get to use his money for a frontcourt player who is anything more than a vet-minimum contract (like Hollins or Williams) as we are still over the cap.  If, on the other hand, we blow up the team, then we don’t have to worry about contending next year and don’t need either Allen or Pietrus.

As for Moore, I don't know if he can play in the league (or if he'll even be around next year).

[colincb]

I wouldnt be surprised to see an Allen for Mayo sign and trade swap. I wouldnt be opposed to that either... Mayo is a great 6th man, is younger, and would be able to be a great scorer off the bench as well as a good wing alongside Rondo.

I know I want my 6th man scoring at a .510 TS% when he's a poor rebounder, passer, and defender at the SG position!

You think 50 million would sign him......ugh Ben Gordon 2.0....without the .570 TS% seasons to even make it seem somewhat defensible.

Yeah, but he's younger!!!  Besides, didn't Mayo already nix this trade(when we were getting more value) because he didn't want to come here?

[LooseCannon]

There is incentive for a team to do a S&T for Ray even if it won't give him more than the MLE.  By doing so, a team may a) possibly get rid of a player it doesn't want and b) preserve the MLE for use on a different player.  Either, in itself, is enough of a reason to try for a S&T, although the Celtics are probably not the team that would accept being on the receiving end of reason A.

The motivation for the Celtics to work a S&T Ray Allen is getting something for nothing if Ray is intent on going somewhere that will use him as a starter, something the Celtics cannot and should not guarantee.