Poll

What should the Celtics do this summer?

Bring back the same team.  Add mediocre help with MLE..
25 (53.2%)
Go after Deron Williams.
13 (27.7%)
Blow it up and target restricted free agents (OJ Mayo, for example)
9 (19.1%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?  (Read 30240 times)

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Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 07:31:37 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Doesn't want to play for Celtics....rather have Rondo
I'll simplify it for you since you didn't read.

Would you rather have:
Option A: Rondo + nothing
Option B: Deron Williams + Whatever Rondo fetches on the open market

Of course it's not exactly that simple since our cap situation isn't all that great.  You'd actually likely have to give up Kevin Garnett in order to sign Deron... but for the sake of argument lets look at it in a simplistic little box.  Option A or Option B?

  Haha. Real choice:

Option A: Rondo + Whoever else you give that max contract money to
Option B: Deron Williams + Whatever Rondo fetches on the open market

  Option A is fairly competitive, that's why you're trying to slant the choices in such an obvious fashion. BTW, Deron is *arguably* a top 3 point guard, and isn't a franchise player. He's capable of leading a team to the WCF or to a bottom 5 record in the league depending on how good his teammates are.

That's a fair point.  But in option a, who are you giving the max money to that's better than Deron Williams?  Seems all the names I'm seeing are restricted free agents.  You can renounce everyone and offer Roy Hibbert a max deal, but if Indiana matches, you're outta luck.  You can renounce everyone and offer Gordon a max deal, but if the Hornets match, you're out of luck.  ANd then you are in a jam, because you only have 25 million left and you renounced all your bird rights to have a CHANCE to land those guys.  Kinda like when Golden State dumped Jeremy Lin just to have a CHANCE at signing DeAndre Jordan.

In the case with Deron... we don't have to renounce anyone until we convince Deron to come here... and if we convince Deron to come here we'll know he'll come here since he's unrestricted.  Big difference.  What I'm asking you here is... if you're danny Ainge... on 12:01am the first day of free agency do you show up at Deron's door and say, "Deron... we want to give you a max deal.  We'll build a team around you.  We have assets like Rondo that we can move for an allstar calibre running-mate of your choosing.  If you convince your buddy Dwight to demand a trade, we have assets (a package centered on rondo and our picks) to go after him..."   If Deron says "no thanks", you leave.  You didn't do any damage to your franchise.  You didn't renounce anyone.  you still retain everyone's bird rights.  My question is... do you OFFER Deron a max deal or not.  No?  You wouldn't even explore it?

I'd explore it.  I'd be a bad GM if I didn't explore it.  You don't often get a chance to add a Deron Williams type player to your team.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2012, 07:44:09 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I wouldn't consider it unless I already had a deal lined up that would bring back an All-Star caliber player in exchange for a Rondo-centric package.  Even then, I probably wouldn't do it if it meant KG wouldn't be coming back.
Fair opinion.  If Rondo is as good as everyone seems to think... landing an all-star caliber player shouldn't be all that hard.  Seems to me Atlanta would hypothetically jump if we offered Rondo straight up for Josh Smith (who wants out and they will likely lose anyway).  In fact, Rondo should theoretically  have even more value than that, right?

I mean from what I'm hearing from some Celtic fans... Rondo is so untouchable that we shouldn't even trade him for Rondo + a top 3 point guard.

I just want to float this idea for you.  Again... hypothetical not be taken seriously.  What if I were to tell you that we had a deal lined up of Rondo to the Kings for Demarcus Cousins.  Cousins makes 4 mil next year and fits under the "allstar caliber" definition.  After signing Deron, you'd have 15.6 mil left in cap space (since Rondo was set to make 11 mil and you just shed an additional 7 mil in space)... which would be enough to probably bring back both Ray and KG.  PG - Deron, SG - Ray, SF - Pierce, PF - KG, C - Cousins  ... Hope you get my gist and don't reply by saying "Cousins is a headcase"... that's not the point.  Btw, that team would also have both 1st rounders and Avery Bradley.

I think Rondo is the sort of player who gets undervalued because scoring is not his primary skill.  So, I think it will be hard to get back equal talent if you are trading away Rondo.

I think DeMarcus Cousins has All-Star potential, but isn't there yet.

My absolute favorite scenario for the Celtics is for Ainge to somehow sign restricted free agent Ryan Anderson, who I think could be better in Boston than he currently is in Orlando, while bringing back Garnett.  That should probably give you an idea of the sort of players I want to acquire.
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Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2012, 07:47:23 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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Forget Dwill. There is much better option in the next free agency. If we sign Dwill to a max contract, that will reduce our chance to sign another max player (probably better than Dwill). I'll just stick with Rondo not because he is a better player but he is a better option. His contract is cap-friendly so we can still sign max-contract players. Resign KG, Green or anyone in the current roster then blow it up next season or two.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2012, 07:51:12 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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why? we have a point guard

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2012, 08:03:21 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

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no thanks. his attitude is suspect. Id rather we have the rondo/bradley combo.
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Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2012, 08:05:07 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Forget Dwill. There is much better option in the next free agency. If we sign Dwill to a max contract, that will reduce our chance to sign another max player (probably better than Dwill). I'll just stick with Rondo not because he is a better player but he is a better option. His contract is cap-friendly so we can still sign max-contract players. Resign KG, Green or anyone in the current roster then blow it up next season or two.
Yeah supposedly some people seem to think there are "much better" options next year.  Signing Deron wouldn't change our chances there... and I seriously doubt you'll find a better unrestricted free agent than Deron Williams anyways.

Same hypothetical as above.  Sign Deron to max.  Trade Rondo for someone making less (Paul George, Cousins, etc), Bring ray and KG back on 1 year deals.  

Next year when Pierce falls off the books (only 5 mil guarenteed) we'd still be able to target another max guy. Cousins, for example, makes rookie money until 2015.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2012, 08:07:39 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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why? we have a point guard
Because you don't win championships by refusing to take risks and standing pat with mediocrity.  

I wanted everyone's opinion.  I see the overwhelming favorite is to just "bring em back".  MIght revisit this after we're eliminated from the playoffs, but right now it's a fair option.  With that said, I think Ainge offers Deron Williams a max deal as soon as free agency begins.  He kinda has to explore it or he's not doing his job.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2012, 08:08:58 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I didnt vote because I didnt like any of the options...Why we we give DWill max money when we already an all star caliber point guard with one more ring than dwill has.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2012, 08:15:20 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I didnt vote because I didnt like any of the options...Why we we give DWill max money when we already an all star caliber point guard with one more ring than dwill has.
Glen Davis has one more ring than LeBron James has, but I'd still rather have LeBron James.

And again this isn't about choosing between Deron and Rondo.  It's about whether or not you'd want to add Deron.  By all means... if you'd like to add Deron and keep Rondo, go for it.  But seems to me if you add a top 3 pg (deron) to go with your top 6 pg (rondo)... one of them needs to be traded.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2012, 08:16:05 PM »

Offline Smutzy#9

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Try and Sign Kaman/ Demarcus Cousins and keep Rondo. Bring KG back for a year as a starter then sign Josh Smith when he is a free agent. We all saw what Rondo was capable of when he had good bigs that camped under the rim. 20+ assists a game no worries. Demarcus has matured since the all star break and its shown in his play, the kid will be an all star soon enough.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2012, 08:17:03 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Try and Sign Kaman/ Demarcus Cousins and keep Rondo. Bring KG back for a year as a starter then sign Josh Smith when he is a free agent. We all saw what Rondo was capable of when he had good bigs that camped under the rim. 20+ assists a game no worries. Demarcus has matured since the all star break and its shown in his play, the kid will be an all star soon enough.
....  Cousins isn't a free agent

You might be able to keep Rondo (and the rest of the team) and add a big man for the MLE.  I think that prices us out of Kaman.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2012, 08:34:02 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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during the Dwight Howard drama, I actually thought if we cannot get him lets go for Deron

after all these drama ended, I kinda like this lineup. Ever since Rondo and Bradley started playing more and more together, I really like the way they play the game

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2012, 08:36:19 PM »

Offline Who

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Hypothetical Deron example 1:  Sign Deron to a max deal.  Trade Rondo straight up for Josh Smith (13 mil next season)... that leaves only aprox 6.6 mil left over.  
I like this Josh Smith idea.

PG - Deron, Bradley
SG -
SF - Pierce,
PF - Josh Smith, JaJuan Johnson
C  - Garnett

They'd have that $2.5 million exception for teams who have spent up to the cap limit. A couple of key free agents still in Ray, Bass, Pietrus, J.Green and Stiemsma. I'd try to give that $2.5 million to Pietrus first, J.Green second and Stiemsma as third choice should the other two reject it. So hopefully the team gets to keep one of those three players with that exception.

Then throw in two first round picks. Hopefully get two guys capable of playing some rotation minutes for you. Lot of empty time on the wing and at backup PF.

And then minimum contract players
  • Starting two guard -- This could be Bradley's role if his impressive play continues. If not, I like DeShawn Stevenson in a 16-20 minute a night part time starter role with Bradley getting extended minutes as the backup two guard. I also like Jamario Moon as a big two guard. Nice long athlete who plays good team defense, creates possessions and is a decent perimeter shooter (34-35% three point range) and athletic finisher in the open court. I don't like J.Moon as much as a three.
  • Backup PG -- If Bradley is otherwise occupied, I'd love to try and bring back Delonte. I am guessing that is a non-starter though since they let him leave so easily this past off-season so we'd likely be stuck with a Ronnie Price type. Or maybe take a chance on someone like Tony Wroten with one of the first round draft picks.
  • Backup SF -- I like Damion James and Derrick Brown. Both are strictly defender/rebounders who struggle offensively. Someone like Josh Howard may be another alternative but I prefer him as a big two than a three nowadays due to lost quickness (can bully smaller guards but not threes).
  • Backup PF -- Hopefully land a Royce White with one of the first rounders. If not, I'd give DJ White a call. DJ White may not accept a minimum contract ... in that case, a Anthony Tolliver (more than minimum? yeah, probably), Reggie Evans or a Josh Powell. Something like that.

PG - Deron, R.Price
SG - Bradley, D.Stevenson
SF - Pierce, Evan Fournier, D.James
PF - Josh Smith, Royce White, JJ Johnson
C  - Garnett, Stiemsma

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2012, 08:41:35 PM »

Offline Who

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Try and Sign Kaman/ Demarcus Cousins and keep Rondo. Bring KG back for a year as a starter then sign Josh Smith when he is a free agent. We all saw what Rondo was capable of when he had good bigs that camped under the rim. 20+ assists a game no worries. Demarcus has matured since the all star break and its shown in his play, the kid will be an all star soon enough.
....  Cousins isn't a free agent

You might be able to keep Rondo (and the rest of the team) and add a big man for the MLE.  I think that prices us out of Kaman.
I think Kaman could be available for that $5 million MLE.

Kaman could probably get $7-8 million from a lesser team but if he wants to play for a title contender, I think he'll to take the MLE.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 08:44:32 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I cannot believe that the OP posted a loaded poll question and his stated position atill failed miserably.

Why should we offer Deron when we have the best point guard in the game right now.