Poll

What should the Celtics do this summer?

Bring back the same team.  Add mediocre help with MLE..
25 (53.2%)
Go after Deron Williams.
13 (27.7%)
Blow it up and target restricted free agents (OJ Mayo, for example)
9 (19.1%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?  (Read 23861 times)

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Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2012, 11:48:02 AM »

Offline chambers

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franchise PG.

Bob Cousy. Magic Johnson. Isaiah Thomas. These are franchise PGs. Deron Williams is not.

I've been thinking about this and I was about to post the same thing.
I don't think Williams is a franchise player. Maybe a franchise player for the Jazz or the Nets, but he is just another version of Rondo. Excellent, All Star caliber player but not necessarily a franchise leading-to-all the peanuts guard. Like Rondo, he needs a Batman so he can do Robin to the max.

Does everyone know that Magic Johnson says Rondo is the best point guard in the NBA?

Anyway, opinion is that Deron Williams is NOT a franchise player.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2012, 02:59:08 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd have to think about it a bit.  How about the Suns.  26 year old Stephon Marbury was an all-star point guard averaging 21 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 steals.  I'm sure at the time if you had asked some Suns fans, they would tell you that Steph was a better player than Steve nash (who was 29 years old and coming off a season averaging 14.5 points, and 8.8 assists... nowhere near the defender that Steph was) ... Still, the Suns gave Nash a max deal and then flipped Steph to the Knicks
Quote
Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybański were traded to the New York Knicks on January 5, 2004 for Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Antonio McDyess, Maciej Lampe, draft rights to Miloš Vujanić, a first-round 2004 draft choice, and an additional future first-round draft choice, likely to be in the 2010 draft.[4]

Suns go from winning 29 games to 62.  Nash wins back-to-back MVP awards.  Does that one count or should I keep looking?

I'm sure if you were to go back and look at some Suns forums the year before you'd see fans saying, "Should the Suns offer Steve Nash the max this summer?

Answer- No

We already have a VERY GOOD PG in Steph Marbury... who is younger and a better defender"...

Am I making ground here or am I delusional?

Because as good as Steph was back in that day, since his early Minnesota days with KG (which did not last too long, either), he never left an impression of running a play-off series winning team, let it be a championship winning one.
So, yeah, I'd shoot everyone on feet if I was a Suns fan and someone brought this trade package to me, but Suns were so desperate to move Steph out of town that they settled down for a losing trade on paper and still ended up on the winning side.
If you think Rondo is such a pain to bear, then, you made ground, I'd say.

Eh... man... that's the best I can do.  Couldn't think of anything better.  I guess I was way off comparing the Suns trading their 26 year old all-star PG to make room for a franchise PG.  Way off.

There's other lesser examples like the Hawks signing Dikembe Mutumbo and then trading Grant Long for two 1st rounders... winning 56 games the next year.  Or the Heat signing Tim Hardaway and then trading their star player (Glen Rice) for Alonzo Mourning (going from 25 wins to contender)... but those technically aren't the same positions and don't count.   Best I can do is the Lakers moving Vlade (for Kobe) to make room for Shaq and the suns trading Steph to make room for Nash (getting a boatload of assets)
Clippers draft Blake Griffin and then trade Zach Randolph for Quentin Richardson to make room for Blake.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2012, 03:09:52 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'd have to think about it a bit.  How about the Suns.  26 year old Stephon Marbury was an all-star point guard averaging 21 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 steals.  I'm sure at the time if you had asked some Suns fans, they would tell you that Steph was a better player than Steve nash (who was 29 years old and coming off a season averaging 14.5 points, and 8.8 assists... nowhere near the defender that Steph was) ... Still, the Suns gave Nash a max deal and then flipped Steph to the Knicks
Quote
Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybański were traded to the New York Knicks on January 5, 2004 for Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Antonio McDyess, Maciej Lampe, draft rights to Miloš Vujanić, a first-round 2004 draft choice, and an additional future first-round draft choice, likely to be in the 2010 draft.[4]

Suns go from winning 29 games to 62.  Nash wins back-to-back MVP awards.  Does that one count or should I keep looking?

I'm sure if you were to go back and look at some Suns forums the year before you'd see fans saying, "Should the Suns offer Steve Nash the max this summer?

Answer- No

We already have a VERY GOOD PG in Steph Marbury... who is younger and a better defender"...

Am I making ground here or am I delusional?

Because as good as Steph was back in that day, since his early Minnesota days with KG (which did not last too long, either), he never left an impression of running a play-off series winning team, let it be a championship winning one.
So, yeah, I'd shoot everyone on feet if I was a Suns fan and someone brought this trade package to me, but Suns were so desperate to move Steph out of town that they settled down for a losing trade on paper and still ended up on the winning side.
If you think Rondo is such a pain to bear, then, you made ground, I'd say.

Eh... man... that's the best I can do.  Couldn't think of anything better.  I guess I was way off comparing the Suns trading their 26 year old all-star PG to make room for a franchise PG.  Way off.

There's other lesser examples like the Hawks signing Dikembe Mutumbo and then trading Grant Long for two 1st rounders... winning 56 games the next year.  Or the Heat signing Tim Hardaway and then trading their star player (Glen Rice) for Alonzo Mourning (going from 25 wins to contender)... but those technically aren't the same positions and don't count.   Best I can do is the Lakers moving Vlade (for Kobe) to make room for Shaq and the suns trading Steph to make room for Nash (getting a boatload of assets)
Clippers draft Blake Griffin and then trade Zach Randolph for Quentin Richardson to make room for Blake.
There are a bunch of examples of teams doing this with drafted players.  When it comes to the draft you always should go after best player available.  But I feel like that should go for free agency as well... try signing the best player available.  It's big picture stuff.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2012, 03:14:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd have to think about it a bit.  How about the Suns.  26 year old Stephon Marbury was an all-star point guard averaging 21 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 steals.  I'm sure at the time if you had asked some Suns fans, they would tell you that Steph was a better player than Steve nash (who was 29 years old and coming off a season averaging 14.5 points, and 8.8 assists... nowhere near the defender that Steph was) ... Still, the Suns gave Nash a max deal and then flipped Steph to the Knicks
Quote
Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybański were traded to the New York Knicks on January 5, 2004 for Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Antonio McDyess, Maciej Lampe, draft rights to Miloš Vujanić, a first-round 2004 draft choice, and an additional future first-round draft choice, likely to be in the 2010 draft.[4]

Suns go from winning 29 games to 62.  Nash wins back-to-back MVP awards.  Does that one count or should I keep looking?

I'm sure if you were to go back and look at some Suns forums the year before you'd see fans saying, "Should the Suns offer Steve Nash the max this summer?

Answer- No

We already have a VERY GOOD PG in Steph Marbury... who is younger and a better defender"...

Am I making ground here or am I delusional?

Because as good as Steph was back in that day, since his early Minnesota days with KG (which did not last too long, either), he never left an impression of running a play-off series winning team, let it be a championship winning one.
So, yeah, I'd shoot everyone on feet if I was a Suns fan and someone brought this trade package to me, but Suns were so desperate to move Steph out of town that they settled down for a losing trade on paper and still ended up on the winning side.
If you think Rondo is such a pain to bear, then, you made ground, I'd say.

Eh... man... that's the best I can do.  Couldn't think of anything better.  I guess I was way off comparing the Suns trading their 26 year old all-star PG to make room for a franchise PG.  Way off.

There's other lesser examples like the Hawks signing Dikembe Mutumbo and then trading Grant Long for two 1st rounders... winning 56 games the next year.  Or the Heat signing Tim Hardaway and then trading their star player (Glen Rice) for Alonzo Mourning (going from 25 wins to contender)... but those technically aren't the same positions and don't count.   Best I can do is the Lakers moving Vlade (for Kobe) to make room for Shaq and the suns trading Steph to make room for Nash (getting a boatload of assets)
Clippers draft Blake Griffin and then trade Zach Randolph for Quentin Richardson to make room for Blake.
There are a bunch of examples of teams doing this with drafted players.  When it comes to the draft you always should go after best player available.  But I feel like that should go for free agency as well... try signing the best player available.  It's big picture stuff.
I agree, I would sign Deron Williams or essentially no one (one year deals only).  He is the only free agent worth signing long term. 

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #154 on: April 08, 2012, 03:31:42 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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There are a bunch of examples of teams doing this with drafted players.  When it comes to the draft you always should go after best player available.  But I feel like that should go for free agency as well... try signing the best player available.  It's big picture stuff.


The big picture of signing a player to max money ay a position that it matters the least to have a top 5 player in? That big picture?

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2012, 05:16:57 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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The big picture of signing a player to max money ay a position that it matters the least to have a top 5 player in? That big picture?

This is the point that makes me think going after Deron to build around is not a great idea. There are about 25-30 quality point guards in the NBA. There are about 25-35 quality wings in the NBA, and you play at least 2 (if not 3) at a time. There are a handful of quality centers. (There are a lot of quality power forwards too). In the big picture, it's worth a lot more to max out a wing player or big man. I think Deron Williams is a better player than Rondo. I don't think Deron Williams is worth $6 million more a year (about half Rondo's salary) than Rondo. 
Go Celtics.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #156 on: April 12, 2012, 07:00:17 AM »

Offline myteamisbetterthanyours

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Rondo is the best overall point guard in the NBA.  I'm not even going to discuss this any further.  The best PG in NBA history (Magic Johnson) seems to think so too.  edit  

Deron is not a winner.  Rondo is a winner.  Deron is the perfect example of a "I get mine, look-at-me im flashy, I shoot like a god, I'm so perfect, but I can't get out the first round type of player" CC Melo.

Deron is an ELITE scorer, don't get me wrong.  But not so much a great point guard.  Defensively he's trash.  He doesnt see the court like Rondo can, and his BBall IQ is no where near Rondo's. Plus, scoring point guards don't win championships anyway.

So I'll pass on giving this guy a max contract, thanks.
 edit - No personal attacks or calling out posters.   wdleehi
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 09:09:49 AM by wdleehi »

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #157 on: April 12, 2012, 07:58:17 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Mello seems to be discovering that basketball is a team sport , finally .
  Deron is a long way from that, he wants to be on a team like the HEAT , where individual talent superior  of just playing street ball wins games and those players are the heros night in and night out.

Team play trumps selfish hero ball .

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #158 on: April 12, 2012, 08:51:41 AM »

Offline incoherent

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I'd say no. Let's spend our money where we need it.

Where we don't need it is the PG: Rondo, SG: Bradley, SF: Pierce.

Priority in spending money in my opinion goes first to the 4 spot, then 5, then 3.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #159 on: April 12, 2012, 09:40:19 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Rondo is the best overall point guard in the NBA.  I'm not even going to discuss this any further.  The best PG in NBA history (Magic Johnson) seems to think so too.  edit  

Deron is not a winner.  Rondo is a winner.  Deron is the perfect example of a "I get mine, look-at-me im flashy, I shoot like a god, I'm so perfect, but I can't get out the first round type of player" CC Melo.

Deron is an ELITE scorer, don't get me wrong.  But not so much a great point guard.  Defensively he's trash.  He doesnt see the court like Rondo can, and his BBall IQ is no where near Rondo's. Plus, scoring point guards don't win championships anyway.

So I'll pass on giving this guy a max contract, thanks.
edit - No personal attacks or calling out posters.   wdleehi
We are talking about the Deron Williams that won 4 playoff series in 4 seasons with the Utah Jazz.  The team that went from 26 wins without Deron to 41 wins in Deron's first season.  

The reality is, Deron Williams is the only free agent worth signing this summer.  Either you sign him or you come back with essentially the same team.  I'd rather just sign him and either play them together or trade Rondo and upgrade down low rather than sign no one or overpay for role players.  Deron Williams is the only difference maker in free agency.  Period.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #160 on: April 12, 2012, 10:08:04 AM »

Offline moiso

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It's hard to think about a point guard replacement with the way Rondo has been playing.  And what if we get Williams, and then teams lowball us on Rondo offers.  We can't have both.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #161 on: April 12, 2012, 10:44:12 AM »

Offline Mazingerz

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why? Rondo's skillset is far better than Deron Williams. I can't comprehend the fascination with Deron "Diva" Williams.
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Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #162 on: April 12, 2012, 11:19:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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It's hard to think about a point guard replacement with the way Rondo has been playing.  And what if we get Williams, and then teams lowball us on Rondo offers.  We can't have both.
Why not?  Clippers were playing great with Paul and Billups.  Rondo and Williams are of a similar size as those two and Williams is much bigger and stronger than Bradley.  From a basketball standpoint it would work just fine.

Re: Should the Celtics offer Deron Williams the max this summer?
« Reply #163 on: April 12, 2012, 11:36:13 AM »

Offline Bahku

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why? Rondo's skillset is far better than Deron Williams. I can't comprehend the fascination with Deron "Diva" Williams.
TP.

Completely agree with this ... I mean, are people even watching these two guys play?!?

D-Will is a very good PG, but not remotely the complete skillset that Rondo has, or the floor vision, or the leadership qualities, or the basketball IQ ... on and on.

No way do I want Deron to replace Rajon.

I'm truly amazed that this mindset is still persisting on the blog after what he's done this season.

Wow.
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