Author Topic: Danny's Plan (idea)  (Read 21475 times)

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Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2012, 03:08:23 PM »

Offline Geo123

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I don't believe the plan is to come back with the same team next year as some people claim.  To me the Celtics will use their cap space to pick up 1 FA and then to use some of the other room in trade scenarios.  That's where DA has had the most success anyway.  This summer I think they go for Kaman and then look at teams that are cap strung and work a deal with them.  He will use the  draft picks to try and move up if possible unless someone falls into his lap he likes (like Myers Leonard).   

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2012, 03:09:05 PM »

Offline snively

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I think Ray and KG could both resign one year deals at less money if the Celtics used the difference to add a player that helps them next year. 


Unfortunately the cap doesn't work that way.  We're $20 mil over the cap this year.  Subtract $20 mil from Ray and KG (quite a coup if we could manage it) while bringing everyone else back at the same price would leave us at the cap and wouldn't allow us to spend that $20 mil as we saw fit.  We'd be totally dependent on cap exceptions to add new players. 
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Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2012, 03:22:10 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think Ray and KG could both resign one year deals at less money if the Celtics used the difference to add a player that helps them next year. 


Unfortunately the cap doesn't work that way.  We're $20 mil over the cap this year.  Subtract $20 mil from Ray and KG (quite a coup if we could manage it) while bringing everyone else back at the same price would leave us at the cap and wouldn't allow us to spend that $20 mil as we saw fit.  We'd be totally dependent on cap exceptions to add new players. 



Who said to bring back everyone at the same price?


And I am not expecting a big cap hole to fill if they come back. 


I am just talking about the flexibility they have.

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2012, 03:42:16 PM »

Offline green7

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I think Ray and KG could both resign one year deals at less money if the Celtics used the difference to add a player that helps them next year.  


Unfortunately the cap doesn't work that way.  We're $20 mil over the cap this year.  Subtract $20 mil from Ray and KG (quite a coup if we could manage it) while bringing everyone else back at the same price would leave us at the cap and wouldn't allow us to spend that $20 mil as we saw fit.  We'd be totally dependent on cap exceptions to add new players.  


what about rasheed & JO's contracts? aren't those coming of the books.

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2012, 03:55:58 PM »

Offline green7

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1.Draft Night Make a deal with the clippers to get deandre jordan,

2.resign KG & ray (if boston can) at a low price


3.sign kaman and asik & jeff Green & bass & and maybe pietrus

that's all i got right now lol

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2012, 04:01:22 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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The only thing I like about this plan is the idea of landing Kris Humphries.
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Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2012, 05:11:47 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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The only thing I like about this plan is the idea of landing Kris Humphries.

Humphries isn't part of the plan I was just giving an example of a FA who thought he would get a 3-4 year deal for good money and instead the free money ran out and he was left resigning in NJ for 1 year.
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Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2012, 05:47:37 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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should bass opt out which there is a 99% chance he will, c's should have around $23 million in cap room after the rookies are signed, I think danny should split the cap room b/w garnett, allen, and a free agent power forward (Humphries, IIyasova, G Wallace) then use the room exception to sign a back up center (Gray, Mahimini, R Evans, Wilcox). Then using jeff green bird rights to resign him next year after signing him to min contract this year to decrease his cap hold as previously suggested on this board.

We almonst saw something similar to this when he nearly got david west this year.  

« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 07:52:51 PM by goCeltics »

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2012, 06:01:44 PM »

Offline MosheP

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By the way, could someone post the Big Four's averages for the last few years? I suspect that, despite the brutal condensed schedule (which will lighten up next year), none of the four have experienced a significant decline in terms of efficiency/productivity.

I just briefly looked at the stats for the past three years for Rondo, Allen, KG, and Pierce.

From what I see, none of the four have experienced any notable decline in production. Pierce's shooting percentage is down several points this year, but his assists are up. Ray is having a career year from 3-point range. KG is still putting up the same numbers. Rondo is too.

If the rationale for blowing things up is that the Big Four are on a decline, it's a false one.


The core is still worth retaining. Find a legitimate starting big and scoring punch off the bench, and the team makes another run next year. In the meantime, continue to stockpile assets (future cap flexibility, draft picks, developing young players) for the day when the right opportunity to cash them in presents itself.

The Celtics are the 7th seed in the weakest conference and have a bottom five offense in the league. Saying the Big Four aren't in a decline is just silly. I mean, you can nitpick some stats that haven't declined, like Ray's 3pt %. However, Ray these days is little more that a spot-up jump-shooter. He's a 15ppg sniper who can't create his own shot.

In any case, if there is no decline in the Big 4 and you can still build a contender around them, then I have no idea how can you excuse Ainge from not trading some future assets for immediate help. You want to wait for next year? When KG/PP/RA will be one year older? When you have a contender with 3/4s of the core in their mid-30s, you have to give away expirings and future late 1st and seconds to build a decent  bench. You need to run the risk. Otherwise it's just nonsensical.

Of course, the fact that Ainge has tried to trade Ray Allen and Pierce shows he doesn't really agree with you.

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2012, 06:04:03 PM »

Offline MosheP

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If Ainge believes this core is championship material, then it's hard to explain why are the backup bigs Greg Stiemsma and JJJ or why he's been shopping Pierce/Ray for younger players/picks. Strange way of acting on his beliefs. 

The backups where first suppose to be J Green,West and Bass. Then it became Wilcox, Bass and Pietrus. Now its Pietrus, Steimsma and JJJ. Things did not go the way danny planned.


Yeps. And he should have adapted accordingly. Either this team is still good enough to contend with some readjustments and a pair of new backups he's able to get or the kind of backups he's able to get aren't good enough to make this team a contender and in that case there's no point in keeping the core.

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2012, 06:15:43 PM »

Offline MosheP

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Danny has only tried to go for lottery position one time, and that was after their two best players at the time (Pierce and Tony Allen) went out with close to season ending injuries, which made the decision for him.  He has never gone into the season trying to play for draft position. 

Even going back to when they were on the verge of the lottery a few years back, instead of tanking it for better draft position, he traded for Antoine Walker.

That just is not Danny's style, because he knows it is much easier to build with assets and flexibility than it is by hoping to win the lottery.

And quickly traded him away for a couple of 2nd rounders and the team won 30 games with Pierce playing the entire season. Trading Toine was more about rearranging contracts and make assets more tradeable than improving the team. For the people who say there's no point in trading veterans for non lottery picks, one of those picks was used in the KG deal and is now Nikola Pekovic. And Ainge also traded Welsh for a late 1st round pick that he later used to trade for Rondo's draft pick.

I still have no idea why you believe that the alternative to maximize wins now is losing flexibility or something. That dichotomy is false.

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2012, 06:18:03 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Ray and KG don't stay unless somehow we become a contender between now and June.  Doubtful.  Why would they stay?  They would be trade bait all season and wouldn't have say in where they go. 

I don't have any problem with DA not making trades.  Remember, this is 'Trader- Danny' -- if he held his itchy trigger finger he had to have done so because offers were 50 cents on the dollar or he has a plan moving forward that wouldn't have panned out with anything he was offered. 

Patience is important.  Think about it, if year is the first year that the C's are no longer legit contenders (last year folks could argue that a healthy return of Shaq would have put them in contention), then we should expect a minimum of 5 more years before DA can constuct another team to get excited about.   No team since Red's 3 eras has returned to contention in shorter than about 8 years (Lakers from Magic to Shaq). I can't think of another team in the modern era to ever rebound in less than a decade (Detroit took how long from Isiah to Ben Wallace? Bulls are getting there after well more than a decade).

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2012, 06:23:24 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Ray and KG don't stay unless somehow we become a contender between now and June.  Doubtful.  Why would they stay?  They would be trade bait all season and wouldn't have say in where they go. 

If I wanted to bring either back, I would offer a one-year contract with a one-year player option.  Because it is a one-year deal, they could not be traded without their consent.  I would trust them to honorably decline that option and retire, go somewhere else, or re-sign for a salary more appropriate to a bench role if their performance fell off a cliff next season.
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Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2012, 07:21:55 PM »

Offline eugen

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Ray and KG don't stay unless somehow we become a contender between now and June.  Doubtful.  Why would they stay?  They would be trade bait all season and wouldn't have say in where they go. 

For KG and Ray, is not easy to go to another team… Why? First, no one can give them astronomic payroll of 10 million or more. Second, they are old players, and do not have too much time to get involved in different anonymous project. Third, can they stay on the bench in other teams? Better for them to stay in Boston and reduce the salary 50-60% and play more than anywhere

Re: Danny's Plan (idea)
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2012, 08:22:02 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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By the way, could someone post the Big Four's averages for the last few years? I suspect that, despite the brutal condensed schedule (which will lighten up next year), none of the four have experienced a significant decline in terms of efficiency/productivity.

I just briefly looked at the stats for the past three years for Rondo, Allen, KG, and Pierce.

From what I see, none of the four have experienced any notable decline in production. Pierce's shooting percentage is down several points this year, but his assists are up. Ray is having a career year from 3-point range. KG is still putting up the same numbers. Rondo is too.

If the rationale for blowing things up is that the Big Four are on a decline, it's a false one.


The core is still worth retaining. Find a legitimate starting big and scoring punch off the bench, and the team makes another run next year. In the meantime, continue to stockpile assets (future cap flexibility, draft picks, developing young players) for the day when the right opportunity to cash them in presents itself.

The Celtics are the 7th seed in the weakest conference and have a bottom five offense in the league. Saying the Big Four aren't in a decline is just silly. I mean, you can nitpick some stats that haven't declined, like Ray's 3pt %. However, Ray these days is little more that a spot-up jump-shooter. He's a 15ppg sniper who can't create his own shot.

In any case, if there is no decline in the Big 4 and you can still build a contender around them, then I have no idea how can you excuse Ainge from not trading some future assets for immediate help. You want to wait for next year? When KG/PP/RA will be one year older? When you have a contender with 3/4s of the core in their mid-30s, you have to give away expirings and future late 1st and seconds to build a decent  bench. You need to run the risk. Otherwise it's just nonsensical.

Of course, the fact that Ainge has tried to trade Ray Allen and Pierce shows he doesn't really agree with you.

I like how you accuse me of nitpicking, without demonstrating in any meaningful way how I was factually wrong.

Ray Allen a sniper who can't create his own shot? Big deal. When has he had to, since coming to Boston? He's still scoring 15 a night as the third/fourth option in the offense, just running off screens. That's his job, and he's done it well since coming here.

The issue is not the Big Four: it's surrounding them with a supporting cast. As others have pointed out, this season's fortunes now see the Celtics relying on a 5th starter (Bass) who should have been a rotation player, and rotation players (Pietrus and the rest) who should have been bench reserves. It's this reality that accounts for the Celtics' offensive ineptitude (as you characterize it, with the "5th worst offense"): the Big Four represent just over 2/3 of the entire scoring average of the team this season: a combined average 61.8 ppg of the C's 91.4 ppg.

Why didn't Ainge sacrifice assets to get them help at the deadline? Why would he cash in picks and young players for an incremental improvement? Unless you can bring in two or three rotation worthy players, the team's chances for a long playoff run don't significantly improve.

As for shopping Pierce and Ray, I have a hard time believing any legit possibility of a Pierce trade. For Ray, of course: get a 1st rounder and a young prospect, and see if you can bring him back next season as a free agent. If not, you still have his Bird Rights at the end of the year, to either resign at smart money, or trade him for assets.

Of course, maybe I'm just a sentimental fool for wanting to see this group continue playing together. I'm looking forward to the rest of this season, and the playoff run.
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