Hollinger: 3 Cs trades that should happen

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http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PERDiem-120309/nba-deadline-trades-happen

I'd not be thrilled with the return here, but I wonder if it's any indication of our players value. For those without insider, here they are in the trade machine (one doesn't work - ha). Basically it's worth noting -- from Hollinger's perspective -- that the Cs save a bunch of money in salary in taxes in addition to the talent they get back.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7qmetd3

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6s36zvm

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7j6emug

[FrDrake]

Trade 1: I don't see Indy having any motivation to move Hibbert (at all.)  He's one of their building blocks and has been consistently improving.  7 footers with skill also don't grow on trees. 

Trade 2: As noted, this one doesn't even work plus even if it did work, make-believe trades where one team trades five guys from their roster and receive one or two back never actually happen.

Trade 3:  If Memphis wants Kenyon Dooling, the Cs will pay for his hotel and per diem expenses for the remainder of the season.  A bag of balls in return will suffice.

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Don't disagree -- just tossing them out there for review. High level, just find it interesting that everyone and their cousin continues to suggest Celtics in their trade ideas.

[Evantime34]

Would we get any picks in these deals?

[ssspence]

Would we get any picks in these deals?

He doesn't add any, no. So basically in the first two deals, Hollinger suggests we take Collison, J Smith and Bledsoe for Rondo and Ray Allen.

I think not.

[manl_lui]

the 3rd trade is most appealing. I want to get rid of Dooling so bad

Bradley should be averaging more minutes, I Hate Dooling's shots with a passion

[bostonpatriot]

The first two trades are atrocious. Just a fantasy about improving the Pacers and the Clippers.

Indiana is a great destination for Rondo; all the Pacers need is a point guard who can pass and their offense will match their fierce defense. Losing Hibbert is a high price to pay, but the Pacers were going to have to pay a pretty penny to keep him this summer and Collison the year after. With this deal, they would get some cost certainty, and adding Bass shores up the frontcourt loss of Hibbert.

Meanwhile, the Celtics slash over $6 million from their luxury tax bill by dumping O'Neal, who is unlikely to play again this season, on Atlanta, and get an inexpensive short-term replacement for Rondo in Collison. Most notably, Boston also gets Smith as a successor to Kevin Garnett at power forward, with Smith's ability to shift down to the 3 at times preserving some lineup flexibility.

As for Atlanta, adding Hibbert (and presumably re-signing him this summer) gives them a real center and allows the long hoped-for move of Al Horford to power forward. The trade also gets the money-starved Hawks under the luxury-tax line.

Hibbert will be an overpaid 13/9 wildly inconsistent and limited to 30mpg center starting next year. The Pacers would trade him (and a modest starter like Collison) for Rondo in a heartbeat.

Allen
While we're breaking up the Celtics, here's another good one to ponder -- either in conjunction with the deal above or on its own. The Clippers certainly become rather potent in the wake of this trade; by agreeing to swallow Ariza's contract from the Hornets and part with the promising Bledsoe, they get a deadly wing shooter in Allen to replace the injured Billups. Additionally, Ariza gives them the wing defender they've sorely needed all season.

For New Orleans, this is a straight salary dump of Ariza, with Kaman the lure. The Hornets would have to pay Gomes one more year, but otherwise get four expiring contracts. New Orleans also would have to waive Solomon Jones and Lance Thomas to make this deal work; let's just say I don't see that as a show-stopper.

As for the Celtics, they get a promising guard in Bledsoe and the Bird rights to a big low-post center, Kaman. That actually has value for the C's, who unlike New Orleans actually have a prayer of re-signing Kaman. They do take on $2.6 million in luxury tax in this deal, but if they don't do the one above, they can eliminate that expense by sending O'Neal to the Hornets instead of Wilcox.

Wait, we haven't traded all the Celtics yet! This is hardly a blockbuster but it's another deal that makes some sense, in the process giving the Grizzlies a halfway decent backup point guard who can play their ballhawking style and hit a spot-up jumper. That's the single most glaring weakness on the roster heading into the playoff run.

In return, Boston gets the restricted free-agent rights to Young, a hard-nosed wing who has fallen out of favor in Memphis this season, and another year to look at Pargo. The $1 million is to pay Pargo's salary next year. Incidentally, this trade also works with Dante Cunningham, Quincy Pondexter, Marreese Speights or Hamed Haddadi; it's really just a matter of preference between the two sides as to which players they value.

His idea is to have the Celtics with a roster of

Collison/Bledsoe/Pargo/Bradley
?
Pierce/Sam Young
KG/Josh Smith/JJJ
Chris Kaman/Stiemsma

with the ability to re-sign Collison, Kaman and Young by the end of the year.

Completely insane.

[Moranis]

I actually don't mind any of those trades, but frankly would rather have Hibbert than Josh Smith.  I mean if Rondo and Bass is good enough for Indy to give up Collison and Hibbert (which I don't think it is), why not just do that.  Makes more sense if you ask me, especially since one of the reasons to acquire Smith is to pair him with Rondo, who would no longer be around.  You also save O'Neal to be used in other trades by doing that.  

If you alter the first trade, then you don't need to make the second trade (which is a poor trade for Boston given Bledsoe isn't better than Collison and is too small to play SG).  Third trade is fine.


I'd then try to move O'Neal, Wilcox, Bradley, and Johnson (or the LAC pick) to New Orleans for Okafor and their lottery pick (top 3 protected)


Thus, my team would like this (again I don't think Indy makes the trade hollinger proposed)

PG - Collison, Pargo
SG - Allen, Daniels, Moore
SF - Pierce, Pietrus, Young
PF - Garnett, Okafor
C - Hibbert, Okafor

Probably not a contender, but I'd feel better about its chances and would feel much better going forward with Hibbert down low and the protected lottery pick from New Orleans.  The team would also still have a fair amount of cap space to work with.

[Celtics4ever]

Makes no sense to get Smith without Rondo.  That is the main reason he wants to come here is to play with his Buddy.

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the 3rd trade is most appealing. I want to get rid of Dooling so bad

Bradley should be averaging more minutes, I Hate Dooling's shots with a passion

Agreed -- who wouldn't do that deal? I don't think Hollinger has been paying attention to Dooling's play too carefully.

[Lucky17]

the 3rd trade is most appealing. I want to get rid of Dooling so bad

Bradley should be averaging more minutes, I Hate Dooling's shots with a passion

Agreed -- who wouldn't do that deal? I don't think Hollinger has been paying attention to Dooling's play too carefully.

I wouldn't. What's the benefit? If you're going to trade Dooling, get something you need (size), or combine him with other expirings to get a rotation player.

[bostonpatriot]

I actually don't mind any of those trades, but frankly would rather have Hibbert than Josh Smith.  I mean if Rondo and Bass is good enough for Indy to give up Collison and Hibbert (which I don't think it is), why not just do that.  Makes more sense if you ask me, especially since one of the reasons to acquire Smith is to pair him with Rondo, who would no longer be around.  You also save O'Neal to be used in other trades by doing that.  

If you alter the first trade, then you don't need to make the second trade (which is a poor trade for Boston given Bledsoe isn't better than Collison and is too small to play SG).  Third trade is fine.


I'd then try to move O'Neal, Wilcox, Bradley, and Johnson (or the LAC pick) to New Orleans for Okafor and their lottery pick (top 3 protected)


Thus, my team would like this (again I don't think Indy makes the trade hollinger proposed)

PG - Collison, Pargo
SG - Allen, Daniels, Moore
SF - Pierce, Pietrus, Young
PF - Garnett, Okafor
C - Hibbert, Okafor

Probably not a contender, but I'd feel better about its chances and would feel much better going forward with Hibbert down low and the protected lottery pick from New Orleans.  The team would also still have a fair amount of cap space to work with.

1 - I think I'd rather have a Garnett/Okafor/Bass rotation than a Garneett/Hibbert/Okafor one. Okafor and Hibbert playing together is too much slowness.

2 - I think you're vastly overrating Hibbert. He's a fairly limited player in spite of his (absurd) All-Star selection. Lacks stamina to play more than 30 mpg. A huge liability defending the pick'n'roll. Not a reliable contributor, prone to have huge slumps (seems to have a tendency to start the season strongly and then go downhill... maybe conditioning/stamina related issues?). An inefficient scoring center. He isn't particularly prolific - 13 ppg, may peak at 15 or something - and his TS% is in the low 50s. Doesn't score with enough volume/efficiency to force doubles consistently. Struggles a lot to score on good  defenders.

A good overall player with the talent to create at a high level from the low post if he manages to establish position, can do a bit of everything else and has improved quite a bit in some areas, a fringe All-Star type of player even. Clearly has a great work ethic considering the stories that come out of Indiana. But not someone I'd be comfortable building around by any means (not even factor the record of his type of body/physical profile have in terms of injuries and career length).

In spite of all his deficiencies, he'll probably get a +$10 million contract next season. Maybe even $12 million.

[Who]

(1) No interest in giving up Rondo for Josh Smith and Darren Collison
(2) Meh, I don't care about this deal one way or the other.
(3) Memphis shouldn't go anywhere near this deal. They are giving up the two best players in the trade. Madness.

[pearljammer10]

Does Hollinger think we are the Wolves trying to stock up on young overratted mediocre point guards?

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the 3rd trade is most appealing. I want to get rid of Dooling so bad

Bradley should be averaging more minutes, I Hate Dooling's shots with a passion

Agreed -- who wouldn't do that deal? I don't think Hollinger has been paying attention to Dooling's play too carefully.

I wouldn't. What's the benefit? If you're going to trade Dooling, get something you need (size), or combine him with other expirings to get a rotation player.

you mean other than acquiring 3 assets that are worth something for 1 who is worth nothing?

neither scenario you suggest is very realistic, just like this trade suggestion to begin with.....