Cold Hearted Ainge: Two Potential Pre-Deadline Deals with IND & SAA

[ssspence]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu.  

Yep. Splitter is more than just a 'bad fit' next to Duncan. He's Duncan-Insurance to make sure big Timmy makes it to May. Splitter actually almost never plays next to Duncan. He plays the exact same role Duncan does, and plays next to Bonner or Blair.

Tim Duncan averages 28 minutes a game because of the amazing depth the Spurs have, which allow them to keep a high-level of play up, even if Duncan is out. You know who takes up that other 20 minutes Duncan leaves behind? Splitter.

Leonard is just flat out a great prospect.

And Matt Bonner plays all the minutes DaJuan Blair doesn't.

So in summation: They'd be trading all their big-man depth, along with their most promising prospect for a position that they already have good depth at (Danny Green and Gary Neal have been very capable), which also has a 30 minute per game established starter.

Spurs aren't making that trade.

Agree on two points: Their hesitance to part with Leonard, and Splitter's affect on Duncan pre-playoffs. He'll play much less when they get there (6 weeks away), and I'd continue to argue that the team I create for SAA is a better playoff team then the one they have today, if they're willing to go 'all-in' for 2012 at the deadline.

[indeedproceed]

Let's call Pietrus for Leonard a relative wash at this point in time. Would you say the Spurs wouldn't trade Splitter and Bonner for Allen and Steimsma? I believe they would, or at the very least be very tempted.

If Pietrus for Leonard is a wash at this point in time (its not, Leonard's got that one), and Leonard is only going to get better while Pietrus will almost certainly get worse, why would the Spurs consider that 'a wash'? Isn't that a huge win for them if their rookie is producing at a rate similar to an established 8 year NBA vet?

[ssspence]

Let's call Pietrus for Leonard a relative wash at this point in time. Would you say the Spurs wouldn't trade Splitter and Bonner for Allen and Steimsma? I believe they would, or at the very least be very tempted.

If Pietrus for Leonard is a wash at this point in time (its not, Leonard's got that one), and Leonard is only going to get better while Pietrus will almost certainly get worse, why would the Spurs consider that 'a wash'? Isn't that a huge win for them if their rookie is producing at a rate similar to an established 8 year NBA vet?

Touche. Leonard could be subbed out for Green or Neal, but I get less enthusiastic about the deal there. I see this deal as secondary to the Rondo deal -- I think Allen is movable for a couple of young assets if not to San An.

[wdleehi]

Let's call Pietrus for Leonard a relative wash at this point in time. Would you say the Spurs wouldn't trade Splitter and Bonner for Allen and Steimsma? I believe they would, or at the very least be very tempted.

If Pietrus for Leonard is a wash at this point in time (its not, Leonard's got that one), and Leonard is only going to get better while Pietrus will almost certainly get worse, why would the Spurs consider that 'a wash'? Isn't that a huge win for them if their rookie is producing at a rate similar to an established 8 year NBA vet?

Touche. Leonard could be subbed out for Green or Neal, but I get less enthusiastic about the deal there. I see this deal as secondary to the Rondo deal -- I think Allen is movable for a couple of young assets if not to San An.

Spurs are still not going to do it.


You are asking the Spurs to replace 41 minutes of PF/C play with a rookie averaging 8.7 minutes a game.

[Yogi]

   Neal, Splitter and Kwahi are part of the Spurs future.  They traded away, George Hill who was like a son to Pop, for Kwahi.  They believe in him.  Shooting guard is also a stacked position for the Spurs.  Manu, Neal, Green.  What they need is a better small forward which they hope Kwahi becomes.
   Can we stop with these trade Rondo for two average players, or players with potential type things...  Paul George hopes to be an all-star one day.  Rondo is a 3-time reigning all-star.  You don't trade a diamond for two pebbles on the chance that one of them might become a diamond one day.

[indeedproceed]

'like a son'? Did Pop ever say that? Just a weird phrasing to come from him.

[ssspence]

Let's call Pietrus for Leonard a relative wash at this point in time. Would you say the Spurs wouldn't trade Splitter and Bonner for Allen and Steimsma? I believe they would, or at the very least be very tempted.

If Pietrus for Leonard is a wash at this point in time (its not, Leonard's got that one), and Leonard is only going to get better while Pietrus will almost certainly get worse, why would the Spurs consider that 'a wash'? Isn't that a huge win for them if their rookie is producing at a rate similar to an established 8 year NBA vet?

Touche. Leonard could be subbed out for Green or Neal, but I get less enthusiastic about the deal there. I see this deal as secondary to the Rondo deal -- I think Allen is movable for a couple of young assets if not to San An.

Spurs are still not going to do it.


You are asking the Spurs to replace 41 minutes of PF/C play with a rookie averaging 8.7 minutes a game.

Wide Load -- I agree with IP... parting with Leonard is the larger problem for SA.  If back-up big minutes are such an issue, just swap Wilcox into the deal for Steamer.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6p9nhhh

The Spurs will win nothing if they stand pat, and the only chip they have that will deliver real value back is Leonard and/or Splitter. 

[CelticG1]

 I think it's safe to say that as constructed the Spurs, at best will make it to  the second round without a change.

I know people love Pop, get giddy over him distributing minutes,  and point to their regular season record bit the Spurs have been atrocious in the playoffs pretty much the past 4 years

[Levis107]

Indiana wouldn't do that first trade.  No way they trade Paul George, that guy is a stud in the making.

[ssspence]

I'd offer up a simplified version of the concept with a single team (IND) as an alternative.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7z447gq

Indiana stays under the cap by a hair this year despite taking on salary, and goes back to have cap space this summer.

There are various ways to adjust this deal based on the Pacers needs or preferences from role players (Bass, Daniels, etc), while still keeping them under the cap.

[wdleehi]

I'd offer up a simplified version of the concept with a single team (IND) as an alternative.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7z447gq

Indiana stays under the lux tax by a hair this year despite taking on salary, and goes back to have cap space this summer.

There are various ways to adjust this deal based on the Pacers needs or preferences from role players (Bass, Daniels, etc), while still keeping them under the tax.

I just don't like the idea of trading Rondo for multiple pieces.  It doesn't give Celtics the player to build around. 


To me, that it the one reason I might trade Rondo.  Getting the piece to build around.

[CelticsFanNC]

I'd offer up a simplified version of the concept with a single team (IND) as an alternative.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7z447gq

Indiana stays under the lux tax by a hair this year despite taking on salary, and goes back to have cap space this summer.

There are various ways to adjust this deal based on the Pacers needs or preferences from role players (Bass, Daniels, etc), while still keeping them under the tax.

I just don't like the idea of trading Rondo for multiple pieces.  It doesn't give Celtics the player to build around. 


To me, that it the one reason I might trade Rondo.  Getting the piece to build around.

  I agree.  If you trade Rondo is has to be for an All-Star level player and nothing less.

[ssspence]

I'd offer up a simplified version of the concept with a single team (IND) as an alternative.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7z447gq

Indiana stays under the lux tax by a hair this year despite taking on salary, and goes back to have cap space this summer.

There are various ways to adjust this deal based on the Pacers needs or preferences from role players (Bass, Daniels, etc), while still keeping them under the tax.

I just don't like the idea of trading Rondo for multiple pieces.  It doesn't give Celtics the player to build around.  


To me, that it the one reason I might trade Rondo.  Getting the piece to build around.

  I agree.  If you trade Rondo is has to be for an All-Star level player and nothing less.

This is what makes this discussion so interesting to me. I'm going to take one thing for granted: that the Celtics truly want to trade Rondo. I believe the answer is 'yes'.... this week, this year, before it's too late... I believe the management of the Cs would like to swap him out. If you disagree with me, then fine -- bloggers right of course. But the following is based on that concept.

Now, here's the list of 2012 All-Stars:

http://www.nba.com/allstar/2012/players/

Can anyone point out a player that 1) their team would be willing to part with for RR9, 2) you'd want for him straight up, and 3) you'd like to have over George and Collison? Not me.  

[LooseCannon]

If the Celtics would like to trade Rondo, but only if it brings back an All-Star quality player in return, and none is available right now, then I think the correct course is to wait and see if one becomes available in the future rather than settling for less because you want to do a deal now.

[bostonpatriot]

San Antonio wouldn't trade Splitter for Ray Allen either.

Paul George for Rondo is more realistic but I'm not sure I'd do it. It's an interesting option; however, I'm not sure if George will ever develop the shot-creation skills to be a primary offensive weapon. He can't really create off-the-dribble. Good chance he'll peak as a Shawn Marion level of player. I'd pass on that trade for the time being. Anyway, going that way implies dumping Pierce and rebuilding by collecting high lottery picks a couple of years (building the team around Paul George).