Cold Hearted Ainge: Two Potential Pre-Deadline Deals with IND & SAA

[ssspence]

I'm reminded of the time Ainge performed a major trade pre-deadline that caused Jim O'Brien to quit (when the Cs had won 5 in a row). As Peter May put it recently, Ainge doesn't have a sentimental bone in his body.

While the Cs are playing well, the value of players like Rondo and Allen are high. Here are a couple of potential deals that I believe are feasible for both teams.

1) http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=748l5t2

Cs trade Rondo to IND for George & Collison. I've mentioned this trade in the past, and still believe it makes sense for both teams. IND gets the best players in the deal right now while the Cs get upside. Rondo would be a really good fit in Indiana, and Bird clearly admires him.

2) http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7tb9b4r

Cs trade Allen, Pietrus and Steamer to San Antonio for Splitter, Leonard and Bonner (to make salaries work). The Spurs go all in for a championship right now -- what choice do they have? -- while only giving up (solid) role guys. The 3 Cs players are exactly the types of guys Pop looks for, and fit needs on their squad.

Net result: Cs ship out -- Rondo, Allen (FA this summer), Pietrus (FA this summer) and Steamer (FA this summer); and get back -- George, Collison, Splitter, Leonard and Bonner. Other small contracts can be added in as needed (Sasha, Daniels).

The cap implications to the Cs next season are essentially a wash / arguably an improvement considering what they will have to pay players at the positions they're filling for next year.  I'd then resign KG to a healthy 1-year deal next summer to maintain flexibility for the next couple of summers. Nice core moving forward -- one that should remain pretty competitive with Pierce, as well.

Rotation going forward:

PG: Collison, Bradley
SG: George, whoever (Moore, Sasha, Daniels, or FA)
SF: Pierce, Leonard
PF: Bass, JJJ
C: Garnett, Splitter

[csfansince60s]

I like the first trade. Since we are giving up the best player, I would also see if we could include Dooling for Hill.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=75vq47z

Then I would try to get Beasley.

Collison/Hill/Bradley
George/Ray/Bradley
Pierce/Pietrus/George
Bass/Beasley/JJJ
Wilcox/KG

I think this team can compete this year and next.

The second trade is inventive and tough to swallow but gives us decent players on reasonable contracts. Maybe just enough to keep us mediocre, though.

Good ideas.

[indeedproceed]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

[thestackshow]

You dont do the first deal unless Rondo is a unrestricted free agent.

You do not trade the best player away in a deal that you DO NOT have to make.

The Carmelo/Dwight situation is different, they have/had to get SOMETHING for these players, so they try to get the best value they can, but they are shipping their best players out because they obviously wont resign.

As long as Rondo is on a lengthy deal, you dont trade him for inferior players.

If Rondo was in his last year and was an unrestricted free agent, then maybe.

Also, George and Collison are role-players. You dont trade a borderline superstar away for 2 role-players. George has potential, but all he is right now is athleticsim, hes not even a big part of that idiana team offensively or defensivly.

You guys are willing to part with Rondo for two role-players? I guess you think all-stars grow on trees.

[wdleehi]

Not a big fan of the trades where the Celtics get two things for Rondo. 



I am in favor of trades with Rondo that is either one for one or the Celtics have to give up more.

[ssspence]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

[wdleehi]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu. 

[theswitch]

I was perusing the Philly boards last night and they talked for a while about the following deal, and I wanted to hear your thoughts on it (I don't think it's been discussed here):

Rondo for Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner.

Now, I don't know if they would do it (I doubt it), but that's one of the more interesting proposals I've seen so far considering their youth, talent, potential and contracts.

[ssspence]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu. 

Yep -- and get the best player in the deal. Ray and Manu share the floor often -- particularly at the end of games -- when Manu's not injured (which he's been the vast majority of the season). In the meantime, Ray soaks up some minutes to keep Manu fresh for playoff time.

Tim Duncan doesn't have long, and the Spurs have limited assets to trade if they want an All-Star caliber player in return.

[wdleehi]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu. 

Yep -- and get the best player in the deal. Ray and Manu share the floor often -- particularly at the end of games -- when Manu's not injured (which he's been the vast majority of the season). In the meantime, Ray soaks up some minutes to keep Manu fresh for playoff time.

Tim Duncan doesn't have long, and the Spurs have limited assets to trade if they want an All-Star caliber player in return.

That's the issue with your trade.  They have the SG depth to keep winning when Manu is out.  They are not going to give away the big man depth that helps keep Duncan's minutes down.

[CelticG1]

These are both fair trades.

If you are going to trade Rondo I don't think you are getting a star in return and George and collison are probably the next best thing.

If the Spurs are looking to win now as opposed to the future I think they role the dice with that deal.

[Celtics4ever]

Evan Turner has under performed for where he was picked he could be a bust.

[indeedproceed]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu.  

Yep. Splitter is more than just a 'bad fit' next to Duncan. He's Duncan-Insurance to make sure big Timmy makes it to May. Splitter actually almost never plays next to Duncan. He plays the exact same role Duncan does, and plays next to Bonner or Blair.

Tim Duncan averages 28 minutes a game because of the amazing depth the Spurs have, which allow them to keep a high-level of play up, even if Duncan is out. You know who takes up that other 20 minutes Duncan leaves behind? Splitter.

Leonard is just flat out a great prospect.

And Matt Bonner plays all the minutes DaJuan Blair doesn't.

So in summation: They'd be trading all their big-man depth, along with their most promising prospect for a position that they already have good depth at (Danny Green and Gary Neal have been very capable), which also has a 30 minute per game established starter.

Spurs aren't making that trade.

[ssspence]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu. 

Yep -- and get the best player in the deal. Ray and Manu share the floor often -- particularly at the end of games -- when Manu's not injured (which he's been the vast majority of the season). In the meantime, Ray soaks up some minutes to keep Manu fresh for playoff time.

Tim Duncan doesn't have long, and the Spurs have limited assets to trade if they want an All-Star caliber player in return.

That's the issue with your trade.  They have the SG depth to keep winning when Manu is out.  They are not going to give away the big man depth that helps keep Duncan's minutes down.

Don't really agree with the first piece. They've had a nice run so far this season with Ginobili largely absent, but that's commonplace for the Spurs before a playoff letdown.

Let's call Pietrus for Leonard a relative wash at this point in time. Would you say the Spurs wouldn't trade Splitter and Bonner for Allen and Steimsma? I believe they would, or at the very least be very tempted.

[Donoghus]

The Spurs aren't giving up Leonard/Splitter for Ray Allen + junk.

Disagree. No team needs to make a 'win now' move more than the Spurs. They give up two back-ups averaging about 20MPG for the best shooter in the NBA, who spaces the floor for Duncan and Parker, as well as a back-up for him who is also an excellent shooter and solid defender. Splitter is a poor fit with Duncan to begin with.

They give up two of their big men that play for a big man that isn't as good.


For a player that plays the same position as Manu.  

Yep. Splitter is more than just a 'bad fit' next to Duncan. He's Duncan-Insurance to make sure big Timmy makes it to May. Splitter actually almost never plays next to Duncan. He plays the exact same role Duncan does, and plays next to Bonner or Blair.

Tim Duncan averages 28 minutes a game because of the amazing depth the Spurs have, which allow them to keep a high-level of play up, even if Duncan is out. You know who takes up that other 20 minutes Duncan leaves behind? Splitter.

Leonard is just flat out a great prospect.

And Matt Bonner plays all the minutes DaJuan Blair doesn't.

So in summation: They'd be trading all their big-man depth, along with their most promising prospect for a position that they already have good depth at (Danny Green and Gary Neal have been very capable), which also has a 30 minute per game established starter.

Spurs aren't making that trade.

Agreed. 

Spurs aren't doing this trade.  They'd be nuts to try and pad their SG depth (which isn't too bad to begin with) at the expense of their front-court. That would leave them dead in the water come playoff time.  Not to mention that I don't see them giving up Leonard right now.