Celtics pursuing Josh Smith? (rumor)

[Smokeeye123]

I think some here think getting JS give the C's a decent shot at Dwight Howard.  It's not even possible unless DA can solve a basic math problem.  Boston projects to be at about $34 million as is after this season -- which accounts for $4mil that Bass may opt out of and does not account for contracts for EMoore, or either of their 2012 #1 picks, or Jeff Green.

Unless Pierce or Rondo is involved in the trade for Smith, Smith's salary of $13m next year puts the C's at $47m.  Say Bass opts out and they end up with only 1 of their #1's, the salary ends up at something like $45m.  With cap projected at about $61m, a $16m starting salary is not nearly enough to get DH. 

So, how would folks propose to have the space to get DH AND have the pieces of the puzzle that will entice him. 

I think they're trying to move Pierce, but if it came down to it this summer and a chance for DH they could amnesty PP to make the numbers work.

Don't see it ever coming to that, business is business, but that's just cold blooded. They'd probably ask Pierce to restructure his contract. Or trade him.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think some here think getting JS give the C's a decent shot at Dwight Howard.  It's not even possible unless DA can solve a basic math problem.  Boston projects to be at about $34 million as is after this season -- which accounts for $4mil that Bass may opt out of and does not account for contracts for EMoore, or either of their 2012 #1 picks, or Jeff Green.

Unless Pierce or Rondo is involved in the trade for Smith, Smith's salary of $13m next year puts the C's at $47m.  Say Bass opts out and they end up with only 1 of their #1's, the salary ends up at something like $45m.  With cap projected at about $61m, a $16m starting salary is not nearly enough to get DH. 

So, how would folks propose to have the space to get DH AND have the pieces of the puzzle that will entice him. 

I think they're trying to move Pierce, but if it came down to it this summer and a chance for DH they could amnesty PP to make the numbers work.

Don't see it ever coming to that, business is business, but that's just cold blooded. They'd probably ask Pierce to restructure his contract. Or trade him.

Also, amnesty for Pierce defeats part of the incentive for DH to come here. Not saying a team with DH, JS, RR and KG wouldn't be very good but, but I think DH will have better options.  I also have to add the down-side of a team ending the game with DH, RR, and JS on the floor. As I've said before: Hack-a-anyone.

[xmuscularghandix]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

You aren't taking into consideration that Minnesota is TRYING to get rid of Beasley and that Josh Smith has essentially demanded a trade.

You don't give up all that stuff for guys that the other team wants to get rid of.

Pierce to Minny is insane.

[BballTim]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

[j804]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

Well he could have been one this year and is playing the best in his young career he's not old either

[Smitty77]

I think it would be much more accurate to say he SHOULD have been an All-Star this year over Pierce.  PP played horribly all year except for that 2-week stretch leading up to the final choosing of the team.  Matter of fact, PP was HORRIBLE after getting the nod. 

And you can't make the argument that PP deserved it because his team was winning more games, because Atlanta had and still has a better record.

Josh Smith's Efficiency Rating is a 20.31 and Paul's is a 17.72.  That is NOT even close.  Josh is ranked 20th in eff. ratings and Pierce is 44th.  Pierce is no longer a +20 type player and he never will be.  Matter of fact, it has been a LONG time since he was.

Please don't get me wrong, I love PP and what he has done for our franchise.  That being said, he did NOT deserve to make the All-Star team this year and probably the last couple of years.

It is probably time to move him to a contender and get out from under his burdensome last two years of his contract.  PP can help a contender if he decides to bring it and drive to the hole and get to the line, which opens up his improved long distance shooting.

Smitty77

[PosImpos]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko).  

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

I think you could make the case he's deserved it the past two seasons.  I think he's a much more valuable player than Chris Bosh, to be honest.  I'd rather have him on my team than Joe Johnson.

Also, I think the idea of trading Pierce and getting Smith would be to have a young All-Star level talent locked up for years to come -- in other words, to get a foundation piece.  Pierce is still more valuable than Smith at this point, but he's going to be a very good player for at least another 4-5 years, whereas Pierce probably has one or two more seasons of high level play after this one.


Also, Marvin Williams is overpaid but he's not a bad player.

Pierce for M. Williams and Smith is a trade I would have to seriously consider.

[Smitty77]

PosImpos,

I was not saying that we should trade PP for Smith straight up.  I think Atl. is wanting Ray and maybe Bass.  I haven't heard anything about Pierce going to Atl.  Of course, I may have missed it.

I agree that Bosh probably didn't deserve it either, but I could make the argument for the approx. 7 others with higher ER's in the East the last two years.

Peace,

Smitty77

[PosImpos]

PosImpos,

I was not saying that we should trade PP for Smith straight up.  I think Atl. is wanting Ray and maybe Bass.  I haven't heard anything about Pierce going to Atl.  Of course, I may have missed it.

I agree that Bosh probably didn't deserve it either, but I could make the argument for the approx. 7 others with higher ER's in the East the last two years.

Peace,

Smitty77

Allen and Bass is not going to net us Smith.  Pierce or KG would need to be going there.  Pierce makes the most sense.

We're not going to get an All-Star caliber big man who hasn't yet entered his prime for a couple of elite role players on expiring contracts.

[lon3lytoaster]

Bored and playing around in the trade machine..

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7u4p7h8

Thabeet has a team option which we'd decline, we get Smith and Budinger who's the type of player we'd want right now, good contract to talent ratio.

Houston finally gets their coveted big man in Gasol

Atlanta gets an expiring and coveted player in Ray and someone to hold down Horford's spot.

Lakers improve their SF and PG production.

[Smokeeye123]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

With Rondo feeding him the ball, I think he would become a star in the league. He can finish down low and plays excellent D.

[Smokeeye123]

PosImpos,

I was not saying that we should trade PP for Smith straight up.  I think Atl. is wanting Ray and maybe Bass.  I haven't heard anything about Pierce going to Atl.  Of course, I may have missed it.

I agree that Bosh probably didn't deserve it either, but I could make the argument for the approx. 7 others with higher ER's in the East the last two years.

Peace,

Smitty77

Allen and Bass is not going to net us Smith.  Pierce or KG would need to be going there.  Pierce makes the most sense.

We're not going to get an All-Star caliber big man who hasn't yet entered his prime for a couple of elite role players on expiring contracts.

Smith and Hinrich for Bass, Pierce, and our 1st round pick might work...Still don't see why the Hawks would do it though...

Maybe than use the Clippers pick to have Beasley play SF.

[BballTim]

PosImpos,

I was not saying that we should trade PP for Smith straight up.  I think Atl. is wanting Ray and maybe Bass.  I haven't heard anything about Pierce going to Atl.  Of course, I may have missed it.

I agree that Bosh probably didn't deserve it either, but I could make the argument for the approx. 7 others with higher ER's in the East the last two years.

Peace,

Smitty77

Allen and Bass is not going to net us Smith.  Pierce or KG would need to be going there.  Pierce makes the most sense.

We're not going to get an All-Star caliber big man who hasn't yet entered his prime for a couple of elite role players on expiring contracts.

  You could throw in a pick as well. If Smith's unhappy in Atl, how much are they going to get in return?

[BballTim]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

With Rondo feeding him the ball, I think he would become a star in the league. He can finish down low and plays excellent D.

  Yes, but if you think that a player will o well in your system you don't pay what you hope he'll be worth in a different system, you pay what he's shown to be worth up to this point.

[PosImpos]

Honestly, if the Celtics are going to rebuild around Rondo, I think Josh Smith is exactly the sort of player to put next to him.

If Smith is available, I think the Celtics should make every player on the roster available with the exception of Rondo.  Taking back Marvin Williams' contract shouldn't be a no-go, either.  Only contract on that team I'd avoid is JJ's.