KG hate: Jealousy or justified?

[Marcus13]

KG = LeBron

You have to respect his basketball talent and his desire and passion for the game...but his personality just outweighs that for most people.

[Moranis]

Maybe because it's not based in fact?  It gets tiring posting and re-posting all of the big and/or star players that KG has had dust-ups with through the years, which includes just about every great player (big or small) of the last decade.  Unless Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, LeBron James etc. etc. etc. aren't big enough for you then your first point is completely moot.

And as to your last point about him not dominating them on the court, do YOU not recognize what KG tends to do when players try to rattle his chain?  Did you not notice that the famed "Anthony-Peeler-elbowed-KG-who-didn't-respond" confrontation happened in game 6 of the 2004 WCSF...you know, the game before KG exploded with 30/20 game 7 to eliminate the Kings?  Did you not catch that by-far KG's BEST performance of the 2008 postseason came against the Pistons when he was guarded directly by Antonio McDyess, who in 2007 famously "punked" KG in a fight situation?  KG as the best player on the court while leading the Celtics over a yapping ZaZa, who KG then physically laid out in game 7?  Andray Blatche getting into it with KG, only to have a hobbled KG squeeze the life out of him down the stretch and then the next season, when healthy, personally destroy Blatche every time they met to the point that Blatche's coach scolded him for being dumb enough to wake a sleeping giant?  LeBron and KG getting into a trash talking match at the foul line at the end of a game, only to have KG bury all 4 of his (while constantly yelling directly at James) while James misses 2 of his 4 and the Celtics winning?

I mean seriously, don't let facts get in the way of the point you want to make, right?

This. TP.

People that hate on KG remind me of the people that hate on Paul Pierce:

A lot of people hate him, and point to the wheelchair incident as proof he is insincere and a faker or whatever the hell you want to call him. And if you JUST look at that incident, you can make that argument. But those people are forgetting about the time he was almost stabbed to death, and still came to play a full season.

It's all about selective memory. If you choose to just remember the times KG backed down from a fight (which, to be honest, I have no idea why people say that's a BAD thing, it's SMART on his part to not let things escalate beyond trash talking. Anyone who says that is because he is weak is just an idiot; smart people don't get into fights. Period.), while forgetting all the times he got physical with superstars like Dwight Howard, then you can say whatever you like.

Basically, haters gonna hate. They're only going to pay attention to the things that back up their preconceived notions.

I don't think the perception of Pierce is one of a faker, I think it is more of immaturity (and things that stem from immaturity), which Pierce definitely was at one point.  I also believe that perception has been changed the last few years and he no longer has that reputation around the league like he once did. 

[CelticG1]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

  First of all, you have to consider why he's picking on certain players. He's doing it for a reason, and it's not because he's a bully. It's because he gets into their heads and gains an advantage. If barking at Duncan isn't going to intimidate or annoy TD in any way, what's the point of doing it?

  Also, you see a fair amount of "back down when challenged" talk here, especially wrt KG. Are people really hoping to see him get into a fistfight with every player he has a dustup with? Would that make him a "real tough guy"? He's not playing a pickup game on the playground, he's getting paid too much to rack up injuries/suspensions like that.

I think he is doing it because he is a bully.  Bird, Jordan, etc. picked on everyone, trash talked with everyone, not just a target here and there.  KG is a bully who only picks on those he perceives as weak and when they fight back, KG disappears.  He can't take the confrontation, backs off, and disappears. He doesn't come back at them, he doesn't then dominate them on the court, etc. 

KG is a fake tough guy and a bully.  I'm really surprised at the amount of people that don't recognize this. 

Maybe because it's not based in fact?  It gets tiring posting and re-posting all of the big and/or star players that KG has had dust-ups with through the years, which includes just about every great player (big or small) of the last decade.  Unless Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, LeBron James etc. etc. etc. aren't big enough for you then your first point is completely moot.

And as to your last point about him not dominating them on the court, do YOU not recognize what KG tends to do when players try to rattle his chain?  Did you not notice that the famed "Anthony-Peeler-elbowed-KG-who-didn't-respond" confrontation happened in game 6 of the 2004 WCSF...you know, the game before KG exploded with 30/20 game 7 to eliminate the Kings?  Did you not catch that by-far KG's BEST performance of the 2008 postseason came against the Pistons when he was guarded directly by Antonio McDyess, who in 2007 famously "punked" KG in a fight situation?  KG as the best player on the court while leading the Celtics over a yapping ZaZa, who KG then physically laid out in game 7?  Andray Blatche getting into it with KG, only to have a hobbled KG squeeze the life out of him down the stretch and then the next season, when healthy, personally destroy Blatche every time they met to the point that Blatche's coach scolded him for being dumb enough to wake a sleeping giant?  LeBron and KG getting into a trash talking match at the foul line at the end of a game, only to have KG bury all 4 of his (while constantly yelling directly at James) while James misses 2 of his 4 and the Celtics winning?

I mean seriously, don't let facts get in the way of the point you want to make, right?

Yeah I've always found this pretty laughable.

I guess Amare, Dirk, and Bogut he was being a fake tough guy too....... wait two of those guys are foreign!!! He only picks on foreign guys too!!

[CelticG1]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

I'd like to think 4 is correct, but I'm not so sure the Celtics beat the Lakers when the Lakers have a healthy Andrew Bynum. 

How does he pick his targets? Are you just going to cite examples that fit your argument and ignore the rest?

Also who did he back down from and what is your definition of backing down? Not starting a fist fight? Not pulling out a knife? Not meeting the guy in the parking lot? Not starting a twitter war? Just give me the multiple times kg has "backed down" wed all love to hear them

[Moranis]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

I'd like to think 4 is correct, but I'm not so sure the Celtics beat the Lakers when the Lakers have a healthy Andrew Bynum. 

How does he pick his targets? Are you just going to cite examples that fit your argument and ignore the rest?

Also who did he back down from and what is your definition of backing down? Not starting a fist fight? Not pulling out a knife? Not meeting the guy in the parking lot? Not starting a twitter war? Just give me the multiple times kg has "backed down" wed all love to hear them

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-garnettvillanueve110310 That article from 2 years ago, is pretty much how KG is perceived across the country.  I live in Ohio and work with a lot of Cavs fans, that is how they perceive him as well.  And frankly, having watched him this closely the last 4 years, I think this perception is well deserved.  KG is a fantastic teammate, a hard worker, and his will to win is unquestioned, but he is also a bully and he has been for as long as I can remember. 

Here are plenty more articles on it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/517975-kevin-garnett-is-he-big-bad-bully-or-just-a-trash-talking-teddy-bear

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/990954-kevin-garnett-video-watch-celtics-star-use-bully-tactics

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-16/sports/29461341_1_knicks-paul-pierce-kendrick-perkins

http://www.hoopsjournal.com/2011/01/29/the-dirtiest-player-in-the-game-strikes-again-kg-goes-to-the-groin/

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/04/18/kevin-garnett-nbas-biggest-punk/

You don't get this many articles (and believe me I could go on all day), from this many sources, with as many different players providing quotes and paraphrases (including guys like Wade and Amare) that all claim the same thing, if that isn't his reputation/perception.  And it is the perception because of all the crap Garnett does.  Garnett's reputation is well earned. 

[Fafnir]

Meh Moranis you can find a ton of articles and fans that think LeBron is a choker, something you've argued strongly against.

Storylines take a life of their own, especially when the media pushes it people pick up on it. I think most physical defenders can be called bullies if that's how you want to percieve things, its all about perception.

[jpk2000]

It's neither jealousy or justified, it's ridiculous talk from both Charles Oakley and Jim Rome. I'm glad Rome is no longer on TV, because he's obnoxious and ego driven. As for as Oakley, he must be off his meds, because his comments about KG, CB34 and Perkins are mind boggling.

KG is not a tough guy or fake tough guy people need to get that straight. He's neither tough or soft, but extremely intense and passionate about the game. He brings it 100% and has for 17 years. To call KG a complementary player is hilarious.

Complementary players don't get MVP's KG(2004), CB34(1993). PERKINS has a ring and helped his to team to the finals in 2008 and 2010. Oakley neither. To my memory Oakley doesn't have anything to show, no achievements or etc.

I rather be a so-called fake tough guy with achievements, than a tough with 19 years of no NBA achievements. Oakley, tough guys don't get beat up by Vegas bOUNCERS or beat women or slapped by Barkley during the 95-96 season. As for those who hate on KG that is typical especially with TV, ESPN and blogs. KG is always under a microscope.

No one cared about KG when he was in Sota, but when he came to Boston, started winning and made the Celts relevant suddenly people have something to say. The people who agree with Oakley's statements are delusional haters, but if KG were to play for their team they would love and adore him.

When KG leaves the game he'll be remembered as an all-time great PF and player. As for Oak he'll be remembered as being tough and that's all!   

     

[jpk2000]

KG

    NBA Champion (2008)
    NBA Most Valuable Player (2004)
    NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
    14× NBA All-Star (1997–1998, 2000–2011)
    4× All-NBA First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2008)
    3× All-NBA Second Team (2001–2002, 2005)
    2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2007)
    9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000–2005, 2008–2009, 2011)
    2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2006–2007)
    NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1996)
    4× NBA rebounding champion (2004–2007)
    NBA All-Star Game MVP (2003)
    J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (2006)

CB

    NBA Most Valuable Player (1993)
    11× NBA All-Star (1987–1997)
    5× All-NBA First Team (1988–1991, 1993)
    5× All-NBA Second Team (1986–1987, 1992, 1994–1995)
    All-NBA Third Team (1996)
    NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
    NBA All-Star Game MVP (1991)
    NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
    #34 Retired by Philadelphia 76ers / Phoenix Suns
    SEC Player of the Year (1984)

Charles Oakley

    NBA All-Defensive First Team (1994)
    NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1998)
    NBA All-Rookie First Team (1986)
    NBA All-Star (1994)
Oakley was hired as an assistant coach for the Charlotte Bobcats under Paul Silas on December 26, 2010.[2] He was fired from that position on December 1, 2011 after experiencing health issues with back pain during the 2010-11 season.[3]
[edit] Personal life

In 2011, Oakley filed a lawsuit against the Aria Resort & Casino in Las Vegas, alleging a group assault by five security guards employed by the casino on May 28, 2010.[4]

END OF CONVERSATION!

[jpk2000]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

I'd like to think 4 is correct, but I'm not so sure the Celtics beat the Lakers when the Lakers have a healthy Andrew Bynum. 

How does he pick his targets? Are you just going to cite examples that fit your argument and ignore the rest?

Also who did he back down from and what is your definition of backing down? Not starting a fist fight? Not pulling out a knife? Not meeting the guy in the parking lot? Not starting a twitter war? Just give me the multiple times kg has "backed down" wed all love to hear them

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-garnettvillanueve110310 That article from 2 years ago, is pretty much how KG is perceived across the country.  I live in Ohio and work with a lot of Cavs fans, that is how they perceive him as well.  And frankly, having watched him this closely the last 4 years, I think this perception is well deserved.  KG is a fantastic teammate, a hard worker, and his will to win is unquestioned, but he is also a bully and he has been for as long as I can remember. 

Here are plenty more articles on it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/517975-kevin-garnett-is-he-big-bad-bully-or-just-a-trash-talking-teddy-bear

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/990954-kevin-garnett-video-watch-celtics-star-use-bully-tactics

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-04-16/sports/29461341_1_knicks-paul-pierce-kendrick-perkins

http://www.hoopsjournal.com/2011/01/29/the-dirtiest-player-in-the-game-strikes-again-kg-goes-to-the-groin/

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/04/18/kevin-garnett-nbas-biggest-punk/

You don't get this many articles (and believe me I could go on all day), from this many sources, with as many different players providing quotes and paraphrases (including guys like Wade and Amare) that all claim the same thing, if that isn't his reputation/perception.  And it is the perception because of all the crap Garnett does.  Garnett's reputation is well earned. 

I would start a franchise with KG or Duncan. People seem to forget that when KG was in Sota he never the talent like Duncan did. It's only the scrubs that complain about KG. Great players like Amare, Noah and Wade push back and compete.

[HajonHondo]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

Agree with all of this except I'm 50/50 on the KG or Duncan thing. Things could have been different if KG went to Georgetown and was drafted to a team with David Robinson.

Not taking anything from TD, he's still the man.

[GreenFaith1819]

KG

    NBA Champion (2008)
    NBA Most Valuable Player (2004)
    NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
    14× NBA All-Star (1997–1998, 2000–2011)
    4× All-NBA First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2008)
    3× All-NBA Second Team (2001–2002, 2005)
    2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2007)
    9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000–2005, 2008–2009, 2011)
    2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2006–2007)
    NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1996)
    4× NBA rebounding champion (2004–2007)
    NBA All-Star Game MVP (2003)
    J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (2006)

CB

    NBA Most Valuable Player (1993)
    11× NBA All-Star (1987–1997)
    5× All-NBA First Team (1988–1991, 1993)
    5× All-NBA Second Team (1986–1987, 1992, 1994–1995)
    All-NBA Third Team (1996)
    NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
    NBA All-Star Game MVP (1991)
    NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
    #34 Retired by Philadelphia 76ers / Phoenix Suns
    SEC Player of the Year (1984)

Charles Oakley

    NBA All-Defensive First Team (1994)
    NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1998)
    NBA All-Rookie First Team (1986)
    NBA All-Star (1994)
Oakley was hired as an assistant coach for the Charlotte Bobcats under Paul Silas on December 26, 2010.[2] He was fired from that position on December 1, 2011 after experiencing health issues with back pain during the 2010-11 season.[3]
[edit] Personal life

In 2011, Oakley filed a lawsuit against the Aria Resort & Casino in Las Vegas, alleging a group assault by five security guards employed by the casino on May 28, 2010.[4]

END OF CONVERSATION!

[GreenFaith1819]

Kevin Garnett donates 24 homes to Katrina

January 9, 2006


Wow, I completely missed this news item from last November…
 

From Scoop Jackson�s column on ESPN.com:
 
How do you make Mother Moses cry? In a year when ball players were getting press for “str8 stupidness” it seemed strange that Kevin Garnett’s written appearance on the Oprah Winfrey Show went notice-free.
 
He wrote her a letter. They gave her the letter on-air as a surprise. In the letter, he said he wanted to donate something to her Angel Network, which was building houses for those who lost their homes in Hurricane Katrina. His pledge: To build one house per month for the next two years. That’s 24 homes! Two seasons of “Extreme Makeover.” Financially funded by one person � with no commercial return on his donation. A gesture that should have landed him on the cover of Time alongside Bill and Melinda Gates and Bono as Persons of The Year. A gesture that made Oprah – read it again, Oprah – break down.
 
But still, no member of the media wrote a story about it. USA Today scripted a blurb; ESPN.com made a mention. But overall – nada.
 
Now, let Kevin Garnett or any other athlete run a stop light; let them miss a practice unexcused; let them miss a child support payment – Bam! Lead story on “SportsCenter,” forum discussion on “Rome Is Burning,” breaking news on CNN.
 
In an era when it is too often publicly asked: “Where are our kids’ role models?”; in a society that is starved for areas of positiveness to come from our professional athletes; in a world where we have been conditioned to believe that every one of these young superstars is unappreciative, ungrateful, undeserving and a void soul, a situation arose that could have shifted the entire perception of their existence. What Kevin Garnett did was just that big.
 
But guess who dropped the ball? Us. The media, for not saying anything about it, and the public, for not demanding that we do.
 
Thanks Sam for the story.
 
More at NBA.com including video, and at Oprah.com

I suppose that Kevin Garnett is a Charitable Bully, too....

God Bless you, KG...there will never be another like you.

[Eja117]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I generally agree with this, but I think I need fake tough guy defined.

Honestly. I'm not sure I think anybody in this league is a tough guy.  In the mean time  Oakley was a top ten pick who only had two very good years, going 14 and 13 once and 14 and 12 once and never averaged more than .6 blks per game. I guess when you have sub par skills you have to become a "tough guy". He only made the all defensive team once, and was 2nd team once.  I don't think he could take what he dished out.

[GreenEnvy]

I think the Duncan vs. KG comparison is similar to Wilt vs. Russell.

Not to take anything away from Bill (I personally rank him 1st or second to MJ), but Wilt was the better basketball player. I watched some ESPNClassic show about him the other day and apparently he always got the better of Russell when they played, but the C's usually won. If Wilt is domintating his counterpart statistically, how can you say Russell was the reason they won? Red and the rest of the team probably had more to do with it.

Same goes with KG and Duncan. I can think of very few facets of the game that Duncan is better than KG in. Low post offense? Low post defense? Blocks? Offensive rebounding? Duncan's numbers are better in those areas, but that wasn't KG's game. When he wanted to go into the post, he could. He could defend anyone anywhere on the court if he had to. He alters more shots than his block numbers would indicate. As one of the greatest defensive rebounder of all-time, I doubt he couldn't clean up the offensive side just as well.

KG will go down as one of the most underrated players ever solely because of the incredibly poor situation he came into in Minnesota. Much like Wilt who played for coach after coach in Philly. Duncan was drafted by this generations version of the 1960's Celtics.

[Moranis]

Kevin Garnett donates 24 homes to Katrina

January 9, 2006


Wow, I completely missed this news item from last November…
 

From Scoop Jackson�s column on ESPN.com:
 
How do you make Mother Moses cry? In a year when ball players were getting press for “str8 stupidness” it seemed strange that Kevin Garnett’s written appearance on the Oprah Winfrey Show went notice-free.
 
He wrote her a letter. They gave her the letter on-air as a surprise. In the letter, he said he wanted to donate something to her Angel Network, which was building houses for those who lost their homes in Hurricane Katrina. His pledge: To build one house per month for the next two years. That’s 24 homes! Two seasons of “Extreme Makeover.” Financially funded by one person � with no commercial return on his donation. A gesture that should have landed him on the cover of Time alongside Bill and Melinda Gates and Bono as Persons of The Year. A gesture that made Oprah – read it again, Oprah – break down.
 
But still, no member of the media wrote a story about it. USA Today scripted a blurb; ESPN.com made a mention. But overall – nada.
 
Now, let Kevin Garnett or any other athlete run a stop light; let them miss a practice unexcused; let them miss a child support payment – Bam! Lead story on “SportsCenter,” forum discussion on “Rome Is Burning,” breaking news on CNN.
 
In an era when it is too often publicly asked: “Where are our kids’ role models?”; in a society that is starved for areas of positiveness to come from our professional athletes; in a world where we have been conditioned to believe that every one of these young superstars is unappreciative, ungrateful, undeserving and a void soul, a situation arose that could have shifted the entire perception of their existence. What Kevin Garnett did was just that big.
 
But guess who dropped the ball? Us. The media, for not saying anything about it, and the public, for not demanding that we do.
 
Thanks Sam for the story.
 
More at NBA.com including video, and at Oprah.com

I suppose that Kevin Garnett is a Charitable Bully, too....

God Bless you, KG...there will never be another like you.

off the court and on the court are two very different things.  By most accounts Stephon Marbury is one of the most giving, charitable and unselfish human beings on the planet, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near my basketball team.