KG hate: Jealousy or justified?

[BballTim]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

  First of all, you have to consider why he's picking on certain players. He's doing it for a reason, and it's not because he's a bully. It's because he gets into their heads and gains an advantage. If barking at Duncan isn't going to intimidate or annoy TD in any way, what's the point of doing it?

  Also, you see a fair amount of "back down when challenged" talk here, especially wrt KG. Are people really hoping to see him get into a fistfight with every player he has a dustup with? Would that make him a "real tough guy"? He's not playing a pickup game on the playground, he's getting paid too much to rack up injuries/suspensions like that.

[Celtics18]

Charles Oakley can't hold a candle to Kevin Garnett as a basketball player.  Too bad that a washed up has been is taking pot shots at great basketball players.  That's low class, Oakley, low class.

[bostonpatriot]

I'd take Garnett over Duncan if starting a franchise today. They are about equal as players but Garnett is a better fit for today's quicker, faster, more perimeter oriented game.

Duncan wouldn't have won a single ring in Minnesota. If he could have won a ring in 03/04 with all the injuries they had, then he would have about 8 rings by now.

I actually doubt they'd have gone as far with Duncan. Garnett's versatility was more valuable to such a flawed team like the Timberwolves were.

[guava_wrench]

It makes no difference whether KG is a fake or real tough guy. All that matters is whether he has been able to intimidate people. Why try to intimidate people who won't be intimidated.

This is not boxing or UFC. It is basketball. It is insignificant whether a player can or is willing to fight. This isn't hockey, where for some bizarro reason they actually allow fighting. All that matters is whether KG has an effect on the opposing players' performances.

Dislike of a player like KG seems pretty justified to me. If you are going to use trash-talking and bullying as a major part of your game, I don't see how you can complain about people holding that against you. If you want everyone to like you, you  can choose to carry yourself like Ray Allen.

[bostonpatriot]

It makes no difference whether KG is a fake or real tough guy. All that matters is whether he has been able to intimidate people. Why try to intimidate people who won't be intimidated.

This is not boxing or UFC. It is basketball. It is insignificant whether a player can or is willing to fight. This isn't hockey, where for some bizarro reason they actually allow fighting. All that matters is whether KG has an effect on the opposing players' performances.

Agreed.

[bbd24]

For me, I first look at the person whose running his mouth.  i.e. Charles Oakley.

I can't take anything this guy says as fact, truth, etc.  I take it with a grain of salt and move on.  He's always been in his own little world, and has always said things to get back in the limelight sort of speak.

The guy rode Ewing's jock for years and was a solid role player at best.  Still couldn't win anything.

Is it jealousy ?  No, I don't think so.  It's Charles Oakley running his mouth.  He did it when he played and got his booty handed to him by the C's time and time again, and he's doing it now.  Old habits don't change.

[drza44]

Oops, forgot the 2nd part about KG winning less with Spurs.  Duncan was a 4 year (?) polished college player that was NBA ready.  KG was a high school player jumping to the NBA.  He wasn't polished enough for the Spurs to win that first title.  KG wasn't a force until probably his 5th year in the league.

Good point..especially with KG not being a force until a few years later.

This is an interesting discussion point, but I'm not sure that I agree with you.  Because KG actually seemed like he made the first leap to Duncan's level at the end of the '99 season, which was when the Spurs won that ring.  Duncan was better in the regular season as a whole, but if you look at the splits KG was clearly trending up as the season went along, from 19.4 ppg on 42% FG in Feb to about 21.5 ppg on more than 47% FG in March and April.  Then, in the first round of those playoffs KG had better numbers in the head-to-head matchup than Duncan did and the Wolves were the only Western Conference team to take a game off of those juggernaut Spurs that postseason.

I say all of that to say that KG may very well have been ready by the 1999 postseason for a championship run on those Spurs.

[Moranis]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

  First of all, you have to consider why he's picking on certain players. He's doing it for a reason, and it's not because he's a bully. It's because he gets into their heads and gains an advantage. If barking at Duncan isn't going to intimidate or annoy TD in any way, what's the point of doing it?

  Also, you see a fair amount of "back down when challenged" talk here, especially wrt KG. Are people really hoping to see him get into a fistfight with every player he has a dustup with? Would that make him a "real tough guy"? He's not playing a pickup game on the playground, he's getting paid too much to rack up injuries/suspensions like that.

I think he is doing it because he is a bully.  Bird, Jordan, etc. picked on everyone, trash talked with everyone, not just a target here and there.  KG is a bully who only picks on those he perceives as weak and when they fight back, KG disappears.  He can't take the confrontation, backs off, and disappears. He doesn't come back at them, he doesn't then dominate them on the court, etc. 

KG is a fake tough guy and a bully.  I'm really surprised at the amount of people that don't recognize this. 

[Moranis]

Oops, forgot the 2nd part about KG winning less with Spurs.  Duncan was a 4 year (?) polished college player that was NBA ready.  KG was a high school player jumping to the NBA.  He wasn't polished enough for the Spurs to win that first title.  KG wasn't a force until probably his 5th year in the league.

Good point..especially with KG not being a force until a few years later.

This is an interesting discussion point, but I'm not sure that I agree with you.  Because KG actually seemed like he made the first leap to Duncan's level at the end of the '99 season, which was when the Spurs won that ring.  Duncan was better in the regular season as a whole, but if you look at the splits KG was clearly trending up as the season went along, from 19.4 ppg on 42% FG in Feb to about 21.5 ppg on more than 47% FG in March and April.  Then, in the first round of those playoffs KG had better numbers in the head-to-head matchup than Duncan did and the Wolves were the only Western Conference team to take a game off of those juggernaut Spurs that postseason.

I say all of that to say that KG may very well have been ready by the 1999 postseason for a championship run on those Spurs.

I'm fairly certain the implication was to assume Duncan was drafted in 95 by the Wolves and Garnett was drafted in 98 by the Spurs. 

[CelticSooner]

What Oakley says about KG is the same thing Maxwell says about Oakley.

[drza44]

Oops, forgot the 2nd part about KG winning less with Spurs.  Duncan was a 4 year (?) polished college player that was NBA ready.  KG was a high school player jumping to the NBA.  He wasn't polished enough for the Spurs to win that first title.  KG wasn't a force until probably his 5th year in the league.

Good point..especially with KG not being a force until a few years later.

This is an interesting discussion point, but I'm not sure that I agree with you.  Because KG actually seemed like he made the first leap to Duncan's level at the end of the '99 season, which was when the Spurs won that ring.  Duncan was better in the regular season as a whole, but if you look at the splits KG was clearly trending up as the season went along, from 19.4 ppg on 42% FG in Feb to about 21.5 ppg on more than 47% FG in March and April.  Then, in the first round of those playoffs KG had better numbers in the head-to-head matchup than Duncan did and the Wolves were the only Western Conference team to take a game off of those juggernaut Spurs that postseason.

I say all of that to say that KG may very well have been ready by the 1999 postseason for a championship run on those Spurs.

I'm fairly certain the implication was to assume Duncan was drafted in 95 by the Wolves and Garnett was drafted in 98 by the Spurs. 

Duncan and Garnett are the exact same age (born a month apart)...makes it really easy to plug them into exact situations that happened chronologically the same.  Put another way, it's a lot easier (and more realistic) to project them how they actually were at the same time than to try to imagine how they would have been different if Duncan completely skipped the college where he got polished for four years while KG suddenly now has 4-years of ACC ball under his belt.

[drza44]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

  First of all, you have to consider why he's picking on certain players. He's doing it for a reason, and it's not because he's a bully. It's because he gets into their heads and gains an advantage. If barking at Duncan isn't going to intimidate or annoy TD in any way, what's the point of doing it?

  Also, you see a fair amount of "back down when challenged" talk here, especially wrt KG. Are people really hoping to see him get into a fistfight with every player he has a dustup with? Would that make him a "real tough guy"? He's not playing a pickup game on the playground, he's getting paid too much to rack up injuries/suspensions like that.

I think he is doing it because he is a bully.  Bird, Jordan, etc. picked on everyone, trash talked with everyone, not just a target here and there.  KG is a bully who only picks on those he perceives as weak and when they fight back, KG disappears.  He can't take the confrontation, backs off, and disappears. He doesn't come back at them, he doesn't then dominate them on the court, etc. 

KG is a fake tough guy and a bully.  I'm really surprised at the amount of people that don't recognize this. 

Maybe because it's not based in fact?  It gets tiring posting and re-posting all of the big and/or star players that KG has had dust-ups with through the years, which includes just about every great player (big or small) of the last decade.  Unless Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, LeBron James etc. etc. etc. aren't big enough for you then your first point is completely moot.

And as to your last point about him not dominating them on the court, do YOU not recognize what KG tends to do when players try to rattle his chain?  Did you not notice that the famed "Anthony-Peeler-elbowed-KG-who-didn't-respond" confrontation happened in game 6 of the 2004 WCSF...you know, the game before KG exploded with 30/20 game 7 to eliminate the Kings?  Did you not catch that by-far KG's BEST performance of the 2008 postseason came against the Pistons when he was guarded directly by Antonio McDyess, who in 2007 famously "punked" KG in a fight situation?  KG as the best player on the court while leading the Celtics over a yapping ZaZa, who KG then physically laid out in game 7?  Andray Blatche getting into it with KG, only to have a hobbled KG squeeze the life out of him down the stretch and then the next season, when healthy, personally destroy Blatche every time they met to the point that Blatche's coach scolded him for being dumb enough to wake a sleeping giant?  LeBron and KG getting into a trash talking match at the foul line at the end of a game, only to have KG bury all 4 of his (while constantly yelling directly at James) while James misses 2 of his 4 and the Celtics winning?

I mean seriously, don't let facts get in the way of the point you want to make, right?

[Taklamar]

Oops, forgot the 2nd part about KG winning less with Spurs.  Duncan was a 4 year (?) polished college player that was NBA ready.  KG was a high school player jumping to the NBA.  He wasn't polished enough for the Spurs to win that first title.  KG wasn't a force until probably his 5th year in the league.

Good point..especially with KG not being a force until a few years later.

This is an interesting discussion point, but I'm not sure that I agree with you.  Because KG actually seemed like he made the first leap to Duncan's level at the end of the '99 season, which was when the Spurs won that ring.  Duncan was better in the regular season as a whole, but if you look at the splits KG was clearly trending up as the season went along, from 19.4 ppg on 42% FG in Feb to about 21.5 ppg on more than 47% FG in March and April.  Then, in the first round of those playoffs KG had better numbers in the head-to-head matchup than Duncan did and the Wolves were the only Western Conference team to take a game off of those juggernaut Spurs that postseason.

I say all of that to say that KG may very well have been ready by the 1999 postseason for a championship run on those Spurs.

Oh yup, my mistake on that.  I made the assumption of swapping their careers, by starting the NBA rookie version of themselves in each other's respective situations.  I'm not sure what the impact on the Spurs teams would be with a KG drafted 4 years earlier than TD showing up, or vice versa.  If you do it like you say, then yeah I agree that the Spurs would of won the first title if the team was the same minus the swap of TD/KG.  Hrm, at that point, I could see the KG version of the Spurs winning a lot...  Hah.

[chambers]

A lot of stuff there:

1.  I absolutely do not think KG is a fake tough guy;

2.  I absolutely do think that KG is a bully who picks his targets;

3.  I would definitely start a franchise with Duncan over KG;

4.  I agree that if KG hadn't gotten injured, he'd have at least two rings right now.

I disagree with 1, KG is a fake tough guy, which is why he picks his targets.  A real tough guy is tough with everyone not just random rookies and young players.  I've also seen KG back down when challenged.  Definition of a fake tough guy if you ask me.

  First of all, you have to consider why he's picking on certain players. He's doing it for a reason, and it's not because he's a bully. It's because he gets into their heads and gains an advantage. If barking at Duncan isn't going to intimidate or annoy TD in any way, what's the point of doing it?

  Also, you see a fair amount of "back down when challenged" talk here, especially wrt KG. Are people really hoping to see him get into a fistfight with every player he has a dustup with? Would that make him a "real tough guy"? He's not playing a pickup game on the playground, he's getting paid too much to rack up injuries/suspensions like that.

I think he is doing it because he is a bully.  Bird, Jordan, etc. picked on everyone, trash talked with everyone, not just a target here and there.  KG is a bully who only picks on those he perceives as weak and when they fight back, KG disappears.  He can't take the confrontation, backs off, and disappears. He doesn't come back at them, he doesn't then dominate them on the court, etc. 

KG is a fake tough guy and a bully.  I'm really surprised at the amount of people that don't recognize this. 

Maybe because it's not based in fact?  It gets tiring posting and re-posting all of the big and/or star players that KG has had dust-ups with through the years, which includes just about every great player (big or small) of the last decade.  Unless Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, LeBron James etc. etc. etc. aren't big enough for you then your first point is completely moot.

And as to your last point about him not dominating them on the court, do YOU not recognize what KG tends to do when players try to rattle his chain?  Did you not notice that the famed "Anthony-Peeler-elbowed-KG-who-didn't-respond" confrontation happened in game 6 of the 2004 WCSF...you know, the game before KG exploded with 30/20 game 7 to eliminate the Kings?  Did you not catch that by-far KG's BEST performance of the 2008 postseason came against the Pistons when he was guarded directly by Antonio McDyess, who in 2007 famously "punked" KG in a fight situation?  KG as the best player on the court while leading the Celtics over a yapping ZaZa, who KG then physically laid out in game 7?  Andray Blatche getting into it with KG, only to have a hobbled KG squeeze the life out of him down the stretch and then the next season, when healthy, personally destroy Blatche every time they met to the point that Blatche's coach scolded him for being dumb enough to wake a sleeping giant?  LeBron and KG getting into a trash talking match at the foul line at the end of a game, only to have KG bury all 4 of his (while constantly yelling directly at James) while James misses 2 of his 4 and the Celtics winning?

I mean seriously, don't let facts get in the way of the point you want to make, right?

Wow.
That's what I'm talkin' bout!
TP baby!

[RyNye]

Maybe because it's not based in fact?  It gets tiring posting and re-posting all of the big and/or star players that KG has had dust-ups with through the years, which includes just about every great player (big or small) of the last decade.  Unless Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, LeBron James etc. etc. etc. aren't big enough for you then your first point is completely moot.

And as to your last point about him not dominating them on the court, do YOU not recognize what KG tends to do when players try to rattle his chain?  Did you not notice that the famed "Anthony-Peeler-elbowed-KG-who-didn't-respond" confrontation happened in game 6 of the 2004 WCSF...you know, the game before KG exploded with 30/20 game 7 to eliminate the Kings?  Did you not catch that by-far KG's BEST performance of the 2008 postseason came against the Pistons when he was guarded directly by Antonio McDyess, who in 2007 famously "punked" KG in a fight situation?  KG as the best player on the court while leading the Celtics over a yapping ZaZa, who KG then physically laid out in game 7?  Andray Blatche getting into it with KG, only to have a hobbled KG squeeze the life out of him down the stretch and then the next season, when healthy, personally destroy Blatche every time they met to the point that Blatche's coach scolded him for being dumb enough to wake a sleeping giant?  LeBron and KG getting into a trash talking match at the foul line at the end of a game, only to have KG bury all 4 of his (while constantly yelling directly at James) while James misses 2 of his 4 and the Celtics winning?

I mean seriously, don't let facts get in the way of the point you want to make, right?

This. TP.

People that hate on KG remind me of the people that hate on Paul Pierce:

A lot of people hate him, and point to the wheelchair incident as proof he is insincere and a faker or whatever the hell you want to call him. And if you JUST look at that incident, you can make that argument. But those people are forgetting about the time he was almost stabbed to death, and still came to play a full season.

It's all about selective memory. If you choose to just remember the times KG backed down from a fight (which, to be honest, I have no idea why people say that's a BAD thing, it's SMART on his part to not let things escalate beyond trash talking. Anyone who says that is because he is weak is just an idiot; smart people don't get into fights. Period.), while forgetting all the times he got physical with superstars like Dwight Howard, then you can say whatever you like.

Basically, haters gonna hate. They're only going to pay attention to the things that back up their preconceived notions.