Will KG be thought of as a Celtic years from now? What about Allen?

[Moranis]

Even if Pierce gets traded it is clear he will be remembered as a Celtic yeas from now and would enter the HOF with a Celtics hat on (you know if they did that sort of thing).  But what about Garnett and Allen (and I don't mean in Boston, I mean nationally)? 

Garnett spent 12 years in Minnesota and is only in year 5 in Boston.  He won his MVP and established himself in Minnesota, but obviously didn't really have team success until he came to Boston (only won 2 playoff series in Minny and both in the same year).  I think he is probably known as a Timberwolf when all is said and done, but his much greater success might alter it.

Allen is a much closer case for me and I think he ultimately ends up being remembered as a Celtic (especially if he plays past this year in Boston).  Allen spent 6.5 years in Milwaukee, 4.5 years in Seattle, and is now in year 5 in Boston.  His most statistically dominate seasons were in Seattle during his prime, his greatest success was in Boston, but he spent the most time in Milwaukee.  He won playoff series in all three cities and he carried teams with inferior talent in Milwaukee and Seattle.

[LarBrd33]

I speak for everyone when I say we all hope that Ray Allen will sign with the Seattle during the offseason and retire a Supersonic.

No not really.  Ray played a lot more games on the Bucks, but I think people still might remember him as a Celtic, but that's where he played the most playoff games.  

KG will be remembered as the greatest Sota player ever.  Even in 08 he was only a shadow of his former self.  Guy was dominant in Sota.  

I've said it before, but in general... "years from now", Celtic fans will still have a certain fondness for KG, Ray and Paul, but ultimately revisionist history will look at this Celtic team as nothing more than a footnote in Kobe Bryant's story.  Kinda a "blip" in the post Duncan/Shaq years... between Kobe's first three titles and his ultimate journey of proving he could do it "alone" (Gasol gets shafted in revisionist history too)...  Having already won 3 titles, he faces off against the Celtics in 08.  We humble him.  He comes back stronger the next year and wins a title.  Only thing left was to get payback on the Celtics... and in 2010 he does that.   Years from now when you look at this time period on ESPN Classic, our big 3 are antagonists in Kobe's trilogy (and he's not even done).  

Don't kill the messenger.  If KG doesn't get injured in 09, the storyline changes, but it is what it is.  History will look at us as a poor man's 80s Pistons... except that the Isiah/Chuck Daily Pistons were relevant for 9 straight seasons, beat down Jordan for years, won two titles and made the finals 3 straight seasons.   The "Big 3" Celtics were slapped together late in their careers, were relevant for three seasons (3.5 if you count last season), beat down Kobe one year, won 1 title and made the finals twice in 3 years.   Maybe comparing them to the 80s Pistons is too generous.  Maybe I should be comparing them to the Rasheed/Billups Pistons, but even that team has a thicker resume.  7 years of relevance, one championship, 2 finals appearances, another 4 years in the ECF.

If you're looking at a purely Boston Celtic retrospective in the year 2050, you look at the 3.5 years this team was relevant and rank it well below the 60s Russell Celtics, well below the 80s Bird Celtics, well below the 70s Cowens Celtics... and hopefully below whatever iteration of the post-"big 3" Celtics come after this.

[PosImpos]

Yes, I think they will, much as Dennis Johnson is considered a Celtic.

[Celtics18]

I agree with Pos' post.  As to LarBird33's post, I guess it depends on your perspective.  As someone who has always been a big basketball fan, I well remember the Sixers team of the early '80s, the Pistons of the late '80s early '90s, the Rockets who took advantage of Jordan's absence in the mid '90s, and even the Sonics and Jazz teams of that same era who could never get over the hump.  None of these teams will ever go down as dominant dynasties, and neither will our current Celtics, but they will be remembered for what they have accomplished by NBA fans in general, not just Celtics fans. 

As far as the history that is written for the casual NBA fan about the individual glorification of Kobe Bryant, I could care less.  I'll remember this team's accomplishments, and so will many other basketball fans. 

[Roy H.]

I think Ray will probably be largely remembered as a Celtic.  He won a title here, and broke the all-time threes record.  He didn't have any particularly huge moments in either Milwaukee or Seattle, so I think most fans will remember his Boston days.

As for KG, I think he's a Twolf.  People will remember the Boston era, but my guess is that they'll think of it almost like a Ray Bourque situation, where a great Minnesota player finished his career in Boston to get a ring.

[birdbrady]

I speak for everyone when I say we all hope that Ray Allen will sign with the Seattle during the offseason and retire a Supersonic.

No you don't.  You speak for no one except for yourself maybe, and a handful of Sonic fans.  You're talking about Ray Allen like he was the Larry Bird of Seattle.  Guy split half of his prime in two cities, and he's not definitively thought of as either a Sonic or Buck.  It's both, and it probably leans towards Milwaukee.  Outside of 2005, Ray's Sonics didn't do much in Seattle.  I don't think they never made the playoffs any other years.  When Ray was in Milwaukee, he had a great team with Robinson and Cassell.  They played two amazing playoff series v Indiana, and had that ECF run in 2001 and almost assuredly would have made the Finals had the league not wanted Philadelphia in the Finals that year.

Ray played a lot more games on the Bucks, but I think people still might remember him as a Celtic, because that's where he played the most playoff games, and still played at an elite level.

KG will be remembered as the greatest Sota player ever.  Even in 08 he was only a shadow of his former self.  Guy was dominant in Sota.  

So? Mike Hayes was remembered as the second best Patriot ever, spent his growing years and all of his prime here, yet he spent the back end of his career with the Raiders, and won a SuperBowl and played in another and everyone remembers him as a Raider.

I've said it before, but in general... "years from now", Celtic fans will still have a certain fondness for KG, Ray and Paul, but ultimately revisionist history will look at this Celtic team as nothing more than a footnote in Kobe Bryant's story.  Kinda a "blip" in the post Duncan/Shaq years... between Kobe's first three titles and his ultimate journey of proving he could do it "alone" (Gasol gets shafted in revisionist history too)...  Having already won 3 titles, he faces off against the Celtics in 08.  We humble him.  He comes back stronger the next year and wins a title.  Only thing left was to get payback on the Celtics... and in 2010 he does that.   Years from now when you look at this time period on ESPN Classic, our big 3 are antagonists in Kobe's trilogy (and he's not even done).  

Don't kill the messenger.  If KG doesn't get injured in 09, the storyline changes, but it is what it is.  History will look at us as a poor man's 80s Pistons... except that the Isiah/Chuck Daily Pistons were relevant for 9 straight seasons, beat down Jordan for years, won two titles and made the finals 3 straight seasons.   The "Big 3" Celtics were slapped together late in their careers, were relevant for three seasons (3.5 if you count last season), beat down Kobe one year, won 1 title and made the finals twice in 3 years.   Maybe comparing them to the 80s Pistons is too generous.  Maybe I should be comparing them to the Rasheed/Billups Pistons, but even that team has a thicker resume.  7 years of relevance, one championship, 2 finals appearances, another 4 years in the ECF.

If you're looking at a purely Boston Celtic retrospective in the year 2050, you look at the 3.5 years this team was relevant and rank it well below the 60s Russell Celtics, well below the 80s Bird Celtics, well below the 70s Cowens Celtics... and hopefully below whatever iteration of the post-"big 3" Celtics come after this.

Wow, I don't know why I even spent the time responding to this post.  And if I didn't write or read this much I never would have.  But anyways, all that matters in this is who Ray and KG want to be remembered as.  They both want to be remembered as Celtics, particularly KG.  He's said this over and over again.  A good example of this is Tiny Archibald.  Archibald has unbelieveable, historical seasons with other team such as the Kings when he became the only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and assists.  Then came to the Celtics to finish his career (before one pointless season in Milw when he didn't even make it through the season.)  He was a role player on the 80-82 Celtics (ECF in 80 and 82, and Champs in 81.)  Yet, what jacket did he end up wearing at the 50 Greatest Players ceremony in the 96 All Star Game?  Yeah, that's right, Celtics.

You're talking about KG and Ray like they were Ray Bourque playing 23 years with one franchise, before jumping on with a good team to win a title in the last year of his career.

KG and Ray played on Celtics teams that all had good playoff runs, won a title, still had great years here, (esp since Ray had arguably the best season of his career last year.)  They want to be remembered as Celtics, I think that's all that matters.

[birdbrady]

I think Ray will probably be largely remembered as a Celtic.  He won a title here, and broke the all-time threes record.  He didn't have any particularly huge moments in either Milwaukee or Seattle, so I think most fans will remember his Boston days.

As for KG, I think he's a Twolf.  People will remember the Boston era, but my guess is that they'll think of it almost like a Ray Bourque situation, where a great Minnesota player finished his career in Boston to get a ring.

I just mentioned this in my other post.

This is so far from a Ray Bourque situation it's absurd.

KG was arguably the MVP of the league here in 2008.  He came to a terrible team, totally turned the franchise around - won the title in 08.  Was an all star from 08-11.  He's in his 5th year, and very well could re-sign here to finish out his career.

Bourque was at the end of his career, played two decades in one city where he played on title contenders (which the Wolves NEVER were except for one year in 2004.  And even then, no one thought they'd make the Finals.)  Bourque's Bruins came so close, so many times.  Bourque then went to a team taht was already amazing for the final year of his career, and didn't even play on the first line.  KG is playing at a higher level NOW, much less 2008, than Ray Bourque ever played on Colorado.  No one in the world remembers Ray Bourque as an Avalanche.

It's more of a Mike Haynes situation.  In fact, it's more.  Haynes already went to a great team.  KG (and Ray) turned a horrible team into a contender and champion instantly.

KG has said on a gazillion occasions how much he appreciates the history of the Celtics, how he wants to carry out the tradition, and how he wants to be remembered as a Celtic.  You can bet every dollar you own that if there was some sort of ceremony (lets say for the 75th year of the NBA they have a top 75 players ever list like they did in 96), KG is there wearing a Celtics jacket.  Just like Tiny Archibald did.  And we never even retired Tiny's jersey in Boston!!

[Eja117]

I think they'll all be Celts the same way I see Roger Clemens as a Yankee

[Marcus13]

I think about this a lot.  KG will always be a Timberwolve - he's the face of their franchise.

Ray is a little different because he's moved around.  He spent the most time in Milwaukee, had his best statistical years in Seattle, and won the most games (and championship) in Boston.  Ultimately, if he is remembered as a Celtic I think it hurts his legacy because of the watered down role he's been forced to play on this team

[Roy H.]

I think Ray will probably be largely remembered as a Celtic.  He won a title here, and broke the all-time threes record.  He didn't have any particularly huge moments in either Milwaukee or Seattle, so I think most fans will remember his Boston days.

As for KG, I think he's a Twolf.  People will remember the Boston era, but my guess is that they'll think of it almost like a Ray Bourque situation, where a great Minnesota player finished his career in Boston to get a ring.

I just mentioned this in my other post.

This is so far from a Ray Bourque situation it's absurd.

KG was arguably the MVP of the league here in 2008.  He came to a terrible team, totally turned the franchise around - won the title in 08.  Was an all star from 08-11.  He's in his 5th year, and very well could re-sign here to finish out his career.

Bourque was at the end of his career, played two decades in one city where he played on title contenders (which the Wolves NEVER were except for one year in 2004.  And even then, no one thought they'd make the Finals.)  Bourque's Bruins came so close, so many times.  Bourque then went to a team taht was already amazing for the final year of his career, and didn't even play on the first line.  KG is playing at a higher level NOW, much less 2008, than Ray Bourque ever played on Colorado.  No one in the world remembers Ray Bourque as an Avalanche.

It's more of a Mike Haynes situation.  In fact, it's more.  Haynes already went to a great team.  KG (and Ray) turned a horrible team into a contender and champion instantly.

KG has said on a gazillion occasions how much he appreciates the history of the Celtics, how he wants to carry out the tradition, and how he wants to be remembered as a Celtic.  You can bet every dollar you own that if there was some sort of ceremony (lets say for the 75th year of the NBA they have a top 75 players ever list like they did in 96), KG is there wearing a Celtics jacket.  Just like Tiny Archibald did.  And we never even retired Tiny's jersey in Boston!!

That could be.  However, I still predict that's what KG's legacy will be:  a great player in Minnesota who came to Boston in his twilight to win a ring.  It will be the Minnesota years that are most remembered and appreciated.

[kozlodoev]

That could be.  However, I still predict that's what KG's legacy will be:  a great player in Minnesota who came to Boston in his twilight to win a ring.  It will be the Minnesota years that are most remembered and appreciated.

That's more Malone and the Lakers. Garnett was still good enough to win his first Defensive Player of the Year award with the Celtics.

[Tgro]

I think they'll all be Celts the same way I see Roger Clemens as a Yankee

Agreed.

[Celtics18]

I think Ray will probably be largely remembered as a Celtic.  He won a title here, and broke the all-time threes record.  He didn't have any particularly huge moments in either Milwaukee or Seattle, so I think most fans will remember his Boston days.

As for KG, I think he's a Twolf.  People will remember the Boston era, but my guess is that they'll think of it almost like a Ray Bourque situation, where a great Minnesota player finished his career in Boston to get a ring.

I'm not a big hockey fan, so I barely remember Ray Bourque to begin with.  As to KG's situation, there's no way that a significant portion of his legacy won't be focused on what he accomplished as a Boston Celtic.  

His time here does not represent a late career ring chasing situation.  He was an integral core member of the first title for the Celtics after a 20+ year drought. And, he's helped keep this team relevant a good five years later.  

This is not Gary Payton winning a title with the Miami Heat.  

[birdbrady]

I think Ray will probably be largely remembered as a Celtic.  He won a title here, and broke the all-time threes record.  He didn't have any particularly huge moments in either Milwaukee or Seattle, so I think most fans will remember his Boston days.

As for KG, I think he's a Twolf.  People will remember the Boston era, but my guess is that they'll think of it almost like a Ray Bourque situation, where a great Minnesota player finished his career in Boston to get a ring.

I just mentioned this in my other post.

This is so far from a Ray Bourque situation it's absurd.

KG was arguably the MVP of the league here in 2008.  He came to a terrible team, totally turned the franchise around - won the title in 08.  Was an all star from 08-11.  He's in his 5th year, and very well could re-sign here to finish out his career.

Bourque was at the end of his career, played two decades in one city where he played on title contenders (which the Wolves NEVER were except for one year in 2004.  And even then, no one thought they'd make the Finals.)  Bourque's Bruins came so close, so many times.  Bourque then went to a team taht was already amazing for the final year of his career, and didn't even play on the first line.  KG is playing at a higher level NOW, much less 2008, than Ray Bourque ever played on Colorado.  No one in the world remembers Ray Bourque as an Avalanche.

It's more of a Mike Haynes situation.  In fact, it's more.  Haynes already went to a great team.  KG (and Ray) turned a horrible team into a contender and champion instantly.

KG has said on a gazillion occasions how much he appreciates the history of the Celtics, how he wants to carry out the tradition, and how he wants to be remembered as a Celtic.  You can bet every dollar you own that if there was some sort of ceremony (lets say for the 75th year of the NBA they have a top 75 players ever list like they did in 96), KG is there wearing a Celtics jacket.  Just like Tiny Archibald did.  And we never even retired Tiny's jersey in Boston!!

That could be.  However, I still predict that's what KG's legacy will be:  a great player in Minnesota who came to Boston in his twilight to win a ring.  It will be the Minnesota years that are most remembered and appreciated.

Except he wasn't in his 'twilight.'

KG was arguably the MVP of the league in 2008.

KG wasn't a great player, well past his prime, to come bandwagon on a franchise to win a wing.  That was Bourque.

KG was still a top 5 player, top 7 at worst when he came here in 2008 - remained that for that season, and turned a moribund franchise into a champion in a season.

This isn't even a Clemens or Mike Haynes situation.  Both were great players, all-timers even, joined prior champions and then were major contributors themselves on those teams winning again.  Same thing with a Clyde Lovellete, who was an amazing player for Minnesota before he finished his career by being a key contributor on those final Russell Celtics championship teams.  If there's one guy that will be thought of when discussing "The Greatest Single Season Turnaround in NBA history" it's KG.

I think you people are greatly underestimating the value of winning a championship means (to be more fair, a key contributor.)  Those are the games that everyone watches.  So that's what we all see.  And the Celtics in 4 years had more success than the Wolves did in 12 years.  Hell the Celtics in 2010 and 2011 (a Finals appearance and second round) had more sucess than the Wolves from 96-07 (one WCF, a bunch of missed post-seasons, and first round exits.)

This isn't really even a debate.

[greenlion]

without a doubt that ray-ray and KG would both be remembered and regarded as celtics..their legacy would forever be carved in oak..the way the culture changed with the infusion of their talents upon their arrival and the instant turn-around, from a struggling team to a contender and eventual champs is definitely hard not to notice..this probably is a non-issue considering the way they embraced the franchise and the celtic nation, they definitely are forever synonymous to the boston celtics...