Serious "Blow-It-Up" Trade Idea Thread

[PosImpos]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

I feel like we ought to be able to get a bit more from the Suns than just Nash in a trade like that -- one of Dudley, Morris, Lopez, or Brown as well (solid young role players).

Still, that's not a bad "blow it up" idea, since it wouldn't completely torpedo our ability to at least compete for the playoffs this season, but we'd still get a likely lottery pick.

[LarBrd33]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

I feel like we ought to be able to get a bit more from the Suns than just Nash in a trade like that -- one of Dudley, Morris, Lopez, or Brown as well (solid young role players).

Still, that's not a bad "blow it up" idea, since it wouldn't completely torpedo our ability to at least compete for the playoffs this season, but we'd still get a likely lottery pick.

I'm trying to think of it from the SUns perspective.  Would they really give up both a lotto pick and Nash for Rondo?  I know Nash is OLD, but he is probably the only one filling seats there.  You could say this starts their rebuilding project, but how does dumping their lotto pick help in rebuilding?  Seems they would be smarter to keep the lotto pick and keep Nash.

Other random note, I can see a Nash + Gortat for Rondo + JO from the perspective of the Celtics as well... since I think Gortat's contract would line up with Pierce and follow the idea of extending Ray, KG and Nash to expire at the same time as Pierce... and clearly Gortat would help our Center issues.  But even then...from the Suns perspective would they really see losing Gortat (27 years old) as worth it if they could get 26 year old Rondo?

[LarBrd33]

Here are my thoughts. We can play out the season as is, and stick with the maybe 5% chance this team can round into a contender. That's totally reasonable; 5% is better than many teams have.

If we do, at the end of the year we'd have:

Doc Rivers

Rondo 11.00
Bradley 1.63
Pierce 16.79
Jujuan Johnson 1.12
about 23.46 in capspace.

Boston #1 (#11 if today)
Clippers #1 (if not top 10) (#20 if today).
Boston #2
Milwaukee #2 (if not top 44) (#42 today)

Cap is 58 million, unlikely to change. Minimum salaries up to 12 total slots about .5 million.  Therefore the C's will have 34.54 million for the above players, leaving 23.46 million in capspace.

So any blow it up ideas are to make the team more appealing going forward than the above slate:
-Keep the same as above but somehow add picks or players that are cost controlled and useful
-Keep the same as above but make the Boston picks better
-swap out some of the pieces above for extra capspace or younger pieces, etc.

here were some ideas; some of them are bad, many people will disagree with, some are not realistic, but they basically operate under the premise we aren't trying to win this year, and to make the slate for next year more appealing going forward. Also something to keep in mind: if we can't add a straight up free agent, we can still use capspace to absorb a contract and give back a pick, especially if we've stockpiled some picks.

-Trade an expiring but useful player (KG, Ray Allen or Bass) to a contender or borderline contender or sucker team for another dead-weight but expiring guy plus a pick or cost-controlled but not yet ready for prime time player. This maintains our same capspace but gives us an extra asset (and probably ensures a good pick in this draft). Or, trading KG for 1/2 expiring and 1/2 bad contract and assets to maintain most of the flexibility and get a bettr asset or two

Examples:
+ Allen to Dall for Terry and Beaubois
+ Allen to GS for Kwame, Brandon Rush, Pick
+ Allen to Mem for Mayo, Arthur, pick
+ Allen to Minn for Beasley, Brad Miller, pick
+ Allen to NJ for Okur, pick
+ KG to NO for Kaman, Landry, Pick
+ Allen to TOR for Barbosa, Baylss, Pick

-Trade Pierce for a shorter contract plus an asset or two to a contender. Increases cap flexibility, and he's still legit and under contract, so maybe you get a better return. Or, if available, trade Pierce to a team missing a legit SF for a few upside guys. Downside: Emotinally, I'd still love pierce to retire in green.

Examples:
+ any of the Ray Allen deals above, plus filler for salary and extra assets
+ To Cleveland for Jameson and a couple picks
+ To Dallas for Terry, Mahinmi, Beaubois, pick
+ To GS for Biedrins (amnesty), Ekpe Udoh or Clay Thompson, pick
+ To Milwaukee for Stephen Jackson, Delfino, Livingston, Sanders, Picks
+ To Minny for Webster, Beasley, Miller, Picks
+ To Utah for Milsap, Bell, picks

-Trade Rondo for a couple upside guys. Depends on where you see Rondo's ceiling as an individual talent and your evaluation of upside guys.

Examples:
+ Rondo for Cousins, Udrih
+ TO Ind for Foster, Jones, Collison, Pick
+ To Mem for Conley, Arthur, Cunningham, picks
+ ToMil for Jennings, Steph jackson, picks
+ with something to NO for Kaman, Henry, picks
+ some filler to Philly for Holliday, Nocioni, picks
+ To Tor for ed davis, picks, calderon
+ To utah for devin harris, one of their bigs (Kanter, favors, pick

So depending on how we play our cards, instead of the above slate we could have the above slate with better Boston picks, plus a Utah pick and a NJ pick or something.

Or maybe the same picks and playrs, but add in Beubois and just a little less capspace.

Or a Rondo and Milsap core (instead of Rondo Pierce), a little more capspace, and the same if not more picks.

I don't know.

I posted something similar.  I like yours better, though.  Only thing is... once you factor in contracts for our draft pics...

Boston #1 (#11 if today)
Clippers #1 (if not top 10) (#20 if today).
Boston #2
Milwaukee #2 (if not top 44) (#42 today)

... That cuts even more into our cap space.  Probably leaves us with around 20 mil in cap space... which we could theoretically use on a guy like Dwight Howard, but then we'd only be able to offer vet minimum contracts to KG, Ray and Jeff Green (since we need to renounce them to get that cap space)

[BballTim]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

  Maybe we could do the same kind of deal from the other end, like KG and a first for Bosh or Ray and a first for Harden. Or do both, reload on the fly.

[celticsleyte]

Having 3 stud rookies around 4 hall of famers for a couple seasons would be a good thing.

I would rather have one star player in his early prime to play along with two rookies than an extra hall of famer and a third rookie. You need a guy who knows how to win and can still get it done.  If a young guy can not learn from Paul Pierce and likely Ray Allen he might just be beyond help. I do not expect KG to come back for another season on short money. I would rather turn one of the older guys into the extra first rounder or stand pat.

[LarBrd33]

Having 3 stud rookies around 4 hall of famers for a couple seasons would be a good thing.

I would rather have one star player in his early prime to play along with two rookies than an extra hall of famer and a third rookie. You need a guy who knows how to win and can still get it done.  If a young guy can not learn from Paul Pierce and likely Ray Allen he might just be beyond help. I do not expect KG to come back for another season on short money. I would rather turn one of the older guys into the extra first rounder or stand pat.

It's more about the big picture.  Rondo makes 11 mil.  A third rookie will make around 2 mil.  If you did the trade, you'd have 29 mil in cap space... KG, Ray and Nash would all be free agents.  If you so choose, you can extend them to line up to when Pierce expires... keeping the 4 old guys as mentors for the young talent we will try to build up in the meantime.  Eventually when all four of them expire/retire, we build around the young talent we have developed.

Right now we don't have a single substantial prospect on this team and using our currently projected 20 mil in cap space to do anything productive in the short-term seems highly unlikely (since you would have to let KG and Ray walk in order to use that cap space).

[PosImpos]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

  Maybe we could do the same kind of deal from the other end, like KG and a first for Bosh or Ray and a first for Harden. Or do both, reload on the fly.

That could work, if OKC or Miami were on the verge of rebuilding.

[PosImpos]

wrong thread

[whiteandgreen25]

If we decide to really blow things up

Rondo $10
Jermaine $6
Boston 1st Rounder

for

Gordon $4
Okafor $12
NO 1st Rounder

Why for NO: Reports saying uncertain if they can pay Gordon, so in Rondo they get a all/super-star point guard with a favorable contract.  Cap-shedding Hornets save a lot of money on Okafor while they try to sell the team.  Still have a mid-round 1st rounder in a deep deep draft, and they will still have a high pick with the Wolves pick.  And in all, NO traded Chris Paul and a 1st for Rondo, Aminu, Wolves 1st, Celts 1st, two 2nd rounders and huge cap relief.  Pretty darn good.

Why for Boston:  Get a likely top 5 pick in one of the studliest drafts we've seen in a while and a budding all-star in Gordon, which is very good value for Rondo.  We extend Gordon for $11-12 M/year and considering Okafor's contract still have $20 M in space for the next 2 years, enough to offer a sizable deal to an elite free agent (Josh Smiith) or a couple of solid pieces.  It's unlikely we will be able to get two free agents this offseason that are worth all the cap space, so it would be a good time to bring on some bad contracts if it means picking up good prospects instead.  Also leaves us with all other tradable pieces (KG, Ray, Bass...) to use to maybe accumulate more picks/pieces.

[PosImpos]

If we decide to really blow things up

Rondo $10
Jermaine $6
Boston 1st Rounder

for

Gordon $4
Okafor $12
NO 1st Rounder

Why for NO: Reports saying uncertain if they can pay Gordon, so in Rondo they get a all/super-star point guard with a favorable contract.  Cap-shedding Hornets save a lot of money on Okafor while they try to sell the team.  Still have a mid-round 1st rounder in a deep deep draft, and they will still have a high pick with the Wolves pick.  And in all, NO traded Chris Paul and a 1st for Rondo, Aminu, Wolves 1st, Celts 1st, two 2nd rounders and huge cap relief.  Pretty darn good.

Why for Boston:  Get a likely top 5 pick in one of the studliest drafts we've seen in a while and a budding all-star in Gordon, which is very good value for Rondo.  We extend Gordon for $11-12 M/year and considering Okafor's contract still have $20 M in space for the next 2 years, enough to offer a sizable deal to an elite free agent (Josh Smiith) or a couple of solid pieces.  It's unlikely we will be able to get two free agents this offseason that are worth all the cap space, so it would be a good time to bring on some bad contracts if it means picking up good prospects instead.  Also leaves us with all other tradable pieces (KG, Ray, Bass...) to use to maybe accumulate more picks/pieces.

NO gives up way too much in that trade.

[whiteandgreen25]

NO gives up way too much in that trade.

How so?
They get a superior player in the trade, $28 mil in cap relief over the next two years, and only trade down in a draft where they will already have a very high pick.

[LarBrd33]

NO gives up way too much in that trade.

How so?
They get a superior player in the trade, $28 mil in cap relief over the next two years, and only trade down in a draft where they will already have a very high pick.

agreed.  that trade is fine for the hornets, because it dumps Okafor.  If you were to change Okafor to Kaman, it would make more sense for the Celtics, but less sense for the Hornets.

[LooseCannon]

I posted this idea in another thread.  It's not something I am in favor of, but something that I think is a realistic scenario.  Some Rockets fans want Daryl Morey to blow up their team and trade Kevin Martin and Luis Scola for expiring contracts and picks.  Some were very disappointed that the trade that would have sent Paul Gasol to Houston was cancelled.

KG's expiring contract for Luis Scola and Kevin Martin.  Houston also receives one or more first round picks and perhaps Avery Bradley or one of the rookies, since the Celtics need to get rid of a player to clear a spot.  Then, the Celtics ship Ray Allen for the best offer available.

Scola and/or Martin end up being attractive enough pseudo-stars so that another team can fool itself that it is getting something substantive as part of a package in return for giving the Celtics a future multi-time All-Star.  Or Scola and Martin play for the Celtics and get traded for assets when they become expiring contracts.

I might warm up to the idea if the Celtics only had to give up the Clippers pick.  I'd hate it instantly if the team had to give up three picks.

[BballTim]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

  Maybe we could do the same kind of deal from the other end, like KG and a first for Bosh or Ray and a first for Harden. Or do both, reload on the fly.

That could work, if OKC or Miami were on the verge of rebuilding.

  Or if they were stupid enough to trade away a player of that caliber for a mid-round draft pick. Rebuilding doesn't necessarily mean unloading young all-stars for next to nothing.

[Who]

I posted this idea in another thread.  It's not something I am in favor of, but something that I think is a realistic scenario.  Some Rockets fans want Daryl Morey to blow up their team and trade Kevin Martin and Luis Scola for expiring contracts and picks.  Some were very disappointed that the trade that would have sent Paul Gasol to Houston was cancelled.

KG's expiring contract for Luis Scola and Kevin Martin.  Houston also receives one or more first round picks and perhaps Avery Bradley or one of the rookies, since the Celtics need to get rid of a player to clear a spot.  Then, the Celtics ship Ray Allen for the best offer available.

Scola and/or Martin end up being attractive enough pseudo-stars so that another team can fool itself that it is getting something substantive as part of a package in return for giving the Celtics a future multi-time All-Star.  Or Scola and Martin play for the Celtics and get traded for assets when they become expiring contracts.

I might warm up to the idea if the Celtics only had to give up the Clippers pick.  I'd hate it instantly if the team had to give up three picks.

The Celtics would need another big piece to make that worthwhile and they don't have the cap flexibility or trade assets to acquire it.

Plus, given Scola's and Pierce's age, they'd only really be putting off rebuilding by 2-3 years by making this deal. Not a core they can work with long term.