Serious "Blow-It-Up" Trade Idea Thread

[indeedproceed]

I'm not sure that team will get us anywhere, but I don't think we'll actually be able to sign a better player through FA.   

That's why I think taking on manageable short term (2-3 yr) contracts and accumulating draft picks and assets = win. This crop (Williams, Howard) of prime fa's are in all probability beyond our reach. Build the team, get ready for the next round in 2014 or so.

But there are solid starting caliber talent out there than, collectively could be good to great. Spencer Hawes,, Rudy Fernandez, Nic Batum,  Landry Fields, Ryan Anderson and a lot more. Collectively they can do great things. Add the two first rounders...

What you're talking about though is kind of like buying furniture for your new house before you even pour the foundation. Anyone or even two of those guys could be great supporting pieces on a contender, but as cornerstones, they're lacking.

[mcshane41]

IN the new salary cap world I think expiring contracts might be more valuable than they have in the past. I mean the Mavericks let a championship team split instead of blowing their cap space - that says something...

With that in mind how's this idea:

Andris Biedrins to ATL
Josh Smith to BOS
O'Neal & Wilcox to GS

Okay, admitted junk for treasure trade here. Thought being that GS will have 46M on the books next offseason. Dealing Biedrins would give them room to make deals, sign a max player, etc. So they could do this while getting back some size for their playoff run. ATL gets the center they want to keep Horford at the 4. We'd probably have to give up both our picks to try and sweeten this pot. It's hopeful, for sure..

[FearTheBeard]

Jazz in
O.J. Mayo
Jermaine O'Neal
Darrell Arthur
$14M

Jazz out
Al Jefferson
Raja Bell
$17M

Grizzlies in
Ray Allen
$10M

Grizzlies out
Darrell Arthur
O.J. Mayo
Sam Young
$8.5M

Celtics in
Josh Smith
Kirk Hinrich
$20.5

Celtics out:
Ray Allen
Kenyon Dooling
Jermaine O'Neal
18.5

Hawks in
Al Jefferson
Kenyon Dooling
Raja Bell
19.5

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I'm not sure that team will get us anywhere, but I don't think we'll actually be able to sign a better player through FA.   

That's why I think taking on manageable short term (2-3 yr) contracts and accumulating draft picks and assets = win. This crop (Williams, Howard) of prime fa's are in all probability beyond our reach. Build the team, get ready for the next round in 2014 or so.

But there are solid starting caliber talent out there than, collectively could be good to great. Spencer Hawes,, Rudy Fernandez, Nic Batum,  Landry Fields, Ryan Anderson and a lot more. Collectively they can do great things. Add the two first rounders...

What you're talking about though is kind of like buying furniture for your new house before you even pour the foundation. Anyone or even two of those guys could be great supporting pieces on a contender, but as cornerstones, they're lacking.

We got Rondo commish. He's no superstar but he makes everybody better. Surrounding him with a few high quality talent, albeit not star material could certainly be contenders.

I'm talking about something in the likes of that championship Pistons team. They got Sheed and Chauncey, but high caliber players but not stars, but surround them with pieces that fit together, know their roles and commits to playing as a team and you can be contenders for years, without crippling your cap as well.

Rondo can be the foundation. He's not a superstar but he's good enough to be trusted and be followed by players who is willing to win.

[PosImpos]

I'm not sure that team will get us anywhere, but I don't think we'll actually be able to sign a better player through FA.   

That's why I think taking on manageable short term (2-3 yr) contracts and accumulating draft picks and assets = win. This crop (Williams, Howard) of prime fa's are in all probability beyond our reach. Build the team, get ready for the next round in 2014 or so.

But there are solid starting caliber talent out there than, collectively could be good to great. Spencer Hawes,, Rudy Fernandez, Nic Batum,  Landry Fields, Ryan Anderson and a lot more. Collectively they can do great things. Add the two first rounders...

What you're talking about though is kind of like buying furniture for your new house before you even pour the foundation. Anyone or even two of those guys could be great supporting pieces on a contender, but as cornerstones, they're lacking.

We got Rondo commish. He's no superstar but he makes everybody better. Surrounding him with a few high quality talent, albeit not star material could certainly be contenders.

I'm talking about something in the likes of that championship Pistons team. They got Sheed and Chauncey, but high caliber players but not stars, but surround them with pieces that fit together, know their roles and commits to playing as a team and you can be contenders for years, without crippling your cap as well.

Rondo can be the foundation. He's not a superstar but he's good enough to be trusted and be followed by players who is willing to win.

That Detroit team was the exception to the rule of championship teams.  They are the only team in the last 30 years to win a championship that way.  Trying to emulate them is unlikely to meet with success; more likely you'll end up like the Hawks -- a perennial second round exit.

[indeedproceed]

I'm not sure that team will get us anywhere, but I don't think we'll actually be able to sign a better player through FA.   

That's why I think taking on manageable short term (2-3 yr) contracts and accumulating draft picks and assets = win. This crop (Williams, Howard) of prime fa's are in all probability beyond our reach. Build the team, get ready for the next round in 2014 or so.

But there are solid starting caliber talent out there than, collectively could be good to great. Spencer Hawes,, Rudy Fernandez, Nic Batum,  Landry Fields, Ryan Anderson and a lot more. Collectively they can do great things. Add the two first rounders...

What you're talking about though is kind of like buying furniture for your new house before you even pour the foundation. Anyone or even two of those guys could be great supporting pieces on a contender, but as cornerstones, they're lacking.

We got Rondo commish. He's no superstar but he makes everybody better. Surrounding him with a few high quality talent, albeit not star material could certainly be contenders.

I'm talking about something in the likes of that championship Pistons team. They got Sheed and Chauncey, but high caliber players but not stars, but surround them with pieces that fit together, know their roles and commits to playing as a team and you can be contenders for years, without crippling your cap as well.

Rondo can be the foundation. He's not a superstar but he's good enough to be trusted and be followed by players who is willing to win.

That team was wholly unique in terms of just about...everything. But calling Ben Wallace not a star at the time isn't being accurate. 4-time defensive player of the year, 5 time All-NBA defense. Rebounding machine. At the time, there wasn't a better defender in the paint in the whole league. Plus 5x NBA all-star billups, 4x all-star Sheed, and 3x all-star Rip HAmilton. Prince was the only guy without an All-star appearance, but he managed 4 2nd team All-NBA defensive selections.

I wonder which guys in the next 2-3 years will be those guys for us. Odds certainly aren't high we'll strike gold in that fashion.

Of course odds weren't high we'd get KG, PP, and RA either, or that Rondo would become the player he has, so here's hopin'.

[Fan from VT]

Here are my thoughts. We can play out the season as is, and stick with the maybe 5% chance this team can round into a contender. That's totally reasonable; 5% is better than many teams have.

If we do, at the end of the year we'd have:

Doc Rivers

Rondo 11.00
Bradley 1.63
Pierce 16.79
Jujuan Johnson 1.12
about 23.46 in capspace.

Boston #1 (#11 if today)
Clippers #1 (if not top 10) (#20 if today).
Boston #2
Milwaukee #2 (if not top 44) (#42 today)

Cap is 58 million, unlikely to change. Minimum salaries up to 12 total slots about .5 million.  Therefore the C's will have 34.54 million for the above players, leaving 23.46 million in capspace.

So any blow it up ideas are to make the team more appealing going forward than the above slate:
-Keep the same as above but somehow add picks or players that are cost controlled and useful
-Keep the same as above but make the Boston picks better
-swap out some of the pieces above for extra capspace or younger pieces, etc.

here were some ideas; some of them are bad, many people will disagree with, some are not realistic, but they basically operate under the premise we aren't trying to win this year, and to make the slate for next year more appealing going forward. Also something to keep in mind: if we can't add a straight up free agent, we can still use capspace to absorb a contract and give back a pick, especially if we've stockpiled some picks.

-Trade an expiring but useful player (KG, Ray Allen or Bass) to a contender or borderline contender or sucker team for another dead-weight but expiring guy plus a pick or cost-controlled but not yet ready for prime time player. This maintains our same capspace but gives us an extra asset (and probably ensures a good pick in this draft). Or, trading KG for 1/2 expiring and 1/2 bad contract and assets to maintain most of the flexibility and get a bettr asset or two

Examples:
+ Allen to Dall for Terry and Beaubois
+ Allen to GS for Kwame, Brandon Rush, Pick
+ Allen to Mem for Mayo, Arthur, pick
+ Allen to Minn for Beasley, Brad Miller, pick
+ Allen to NJ for Okur, pick
+ KG to NO for Kaman, Landry, Pick
+ Allen to TOR for Barbosa, Baylss, Pick

-Trade Pierce for a shorter contract plus an asset or two to a contender. Increases cap flexibility, and he's still legit and under contract, so maybe you get a better return. Or, if available, trade Pierce to a team missing a legit SF for a few upside guys. Downside: Emotinally, I'd still love pierce to retire in green.

Examples:
+ any of the Ray Allen deals above, plus filler for salary and extra assets
+ To Cleveland for Jameson and a couple picks
+ To Dallas for Terry, Mahinmi, Beaubois, pick
+ To GS for Biedrins (amnesty), Ekpe Udoh or Clay Thompson, pick
+ To Milwaukee for Stephen Jackson, Delfino, Livingston, Sanders, Picks
+ To Minny for Webster, Beasley, Miller, Picks
+ To Utah for Milsap, Bell, picks

-Trade Rondo for a couple upside guys. Depends on where you see Rondo's ceiling as an individual talent and your evaluation of upside guys.

Examples:
+ Rondo for Cousins, Udrih
+ TO Ind for Foster, Jones, Collison, Pick
+ To Mem for Conley, Arthur, Cunningham, picks
+ ToMil for Jennings, Steph jackson, picks
+ with something to NO for Kaman, Henry, picks
+ some filler to Philly for Holliday, Nocioni, picks
+ To Tor for ed davis, picks, calderon
+ To utah for devin harris, one of their bigs (Kanter, favors, pick

So depending on how we play our cards, instead of the above slate we could have the above slate with better Boston picks, plus a Utah pick and a NJ pick or something.

Or maybe the same picks and playrs, but add in Beubois and just a little less capspace.

Or a Rondo and Milsap core (instead of Rondo Pierce), a little more capspace, and the same if not more picks.

I don't know.

[snively]

Odom, Kidd and Beaubois for KG and Moore is the deal I'd be shooting for.

Dallas gets to upgrade their big man rotation for the short-term (as much has KG has fallen off, he's still out-performing Lamar) and shave off at least $4.5 mil off of next year's cap (Lamar's $2.4 buyout and Beaubois' salary).

Boston gets a better mid-term option at PG than KG - Lamar is 3 years younger than KG, and he's signed to an affordable $8.9 mil next year if we don't want to buy him out - and an interesting young player in Beaubois to back-up Rondo for pretty cheap.  Kidd would make decent trade bait for another contender in need of guard help.

[mcshane41]

Brandon Bass & one of our young guys for OJ Mayo.. We could use the scoring.

[BballTim]

I'm not sure that team will get us anywhere, but I don't think we'll actually be able to sign a better player through FA.   

That's why I think taking on manageable short term (2-3 yr) contracts and accumulating draft picks and assets = win. This crop (Williams, Howard) of prime fa's are in all probability beyond our reach. Build the team, get ready for the next round in 2014 or so.

But there are solid starting caliber talent out there than, collectively could be good to great. Spencer Hawes,, Rudy Fernandez, Nic Batum,  Landry Fields, Ryan Anderson and a lot more. Collectively they can do great things. Add the two first rounders...

What you're talking about though is kind of like buying furniture for your new house before you even pour the foundation. Anyone or even two of those guys could be great supporting pieces on a contender, but as cornerstones, they're lacking.

We got Rondo commish. He's no superstar but he makes everybody better. Surrounding him with a few high quality talent, albeit not star material could certainly be contenders.

I'm talking about something in the likes of that championship Pistons team. They got Sheed and Chauncey, but high caliber players but not stars, but surround them with pieces that fit together, know their roles and commits to playing as a team and you can be contenders for years, without crippling your cap as well.

Rondo can be the foundation. He's not a superstar but he's good enough to be trusted and be followed by players who is willing to win.

That Detroit team was the exception to the rule of championship teams.  They are the only team in the last 30 years to win a championship that way.  Trying to emulate them is unlikely to meet with success; more likely you'll end up like the Hawks -- a perennial second round exit.

  If you take the number of teams with top 5 draft picks in the last 30 years, the number of players chosen that led the team that picked them to the title if fairly low. So the odds really aren't that much better in the lottery than they are with the Detroit model.

[PosImpos]

I'm not sure that team will get us anywhere, but I don't think we'll actually be able to sign a better player through FA.   

That's why I think taking on manageable short term (2-3 yr) contracts and accumulating draft picks and assets = win. This crop (Williams, Howard) of prime fa's are in all probability beyond our reach. Build the team, get ready for the next round in 2014 or so.

But there are solid starting caliber talent out there than, collectively could be good to great. Spencer Hawes,, Rudy Fernandez, Nic Batum,  Landry Fields, Ryan Anderson and a lot more. Collectively they can do great things. Add the two first rounders...

What you're talking about though is kind of like buying furniture for your new house before you even pour the foundation. Anyone or even two of those guys could be great supporting pieces on a contender, but as cornerstones, they're lacking.

We got Rondo commish. He's no superstar but he makes everybody better. Surrounding him with a few high quality talent, albeit not star material could certainly be contenders.

I'm talking about something in the likes of that championship Pistons team. They got Sheed and Chauncey, but high caliber players but not stars, but surround them with pieces that fit together, know their roles and commits to playing as a team and you can be contenders for years, without crippling your cap as well.

Rondo can be the foundation. He's not a superstar but he's good enough to be trusted and be followed by players who is willing to win.

That Detroit team was the exception to the rule of championship teams.  They are the only team in the last 30 years to win a championship that way.  Trying to emulate them is unlikely to meet with success; more likely you'll end up like the Hawks -- a perennial second round exit.

  If you take the number of teams with top 5 draft picks in the last 30 years, the number of players chosen that led the team that picked them to the title if fairly low. So the odds really aren't that much better in the lottery than they are with the Detroit model.

I'm not convinced it's easier to put together a team like that Detroit team than it is to luck your way into a franchise player with a top lottery pick -- irrespective of which type of team has a better chance of winning it all.

That Detroit team had amazing chemistry, the parts fit together perfectly, they came along at just the right time, they made an in-season trade that worked out as well as it possibly could have, and they never had everything fall into place like that again (though they came close the next season).  The Detroit team lacked one clear-cut dominant top-talent, but they were also an incredibly deep, incredibly talented team.  Few teams in history better exemplify the phrase "lightning in a bottle." 

It's not that hard to put together a team with 3-4 All-Star level talents that win a lot of games (though it's pretty darn hard), but it's incredibly hard to put together such a team that also fits together perfectly and plays exactly the right kind of style to win in the year that they happen to be at their best.

[JSD]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

[celticsleyte]

We could win the old timers game at the all star break next year with that line up just need to bring back shack!

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

[JSD]

Having 3 stud rookies around 4 hall of famers for a couple seasons would be a good thing.

[LarBrd33]

Simple from me:

Rondo

For

Nash and a 2012 1st round pick.

Three 1st rounders in a deep draft to add to an older veteran team is a great rebuilding idea in my opinion. Resign Nash, Allen, KG to two year deals aligning them with Pierce.

I did the math and it looks like our "cap room" will be around 20 million IF we let KG, Ray and Jeff Green walk.  In other words, you could THEORETICALLY sign Dwight Howard in the offseason, but then unless KG and Ray take the vet minimum... you'll basically have ROndo, Dwight, aging Paul Pierce + whatever d-league players we can fill the roster with.  Even in the "Dream" scenario of Dwight, this team is toast (not to mention, why on earth would Dwight sign with this team when the only draw is Rondo and an over-the-hill Paul Pierce).

So for that reason, I can see why trading Rondo for draft pick or a guy still on his rookie contract (a Steph Curry or Eric Gordon, for instance), would be appealing.  If, for instance, you traded Rondo for the #1 pick (as a hypothetical), the #1 pick would make 4.2 mil his rookie season and that would free up an addition 7 million dollars next year.  Right now, the Suns are projected to be a late lotto pick (#10)... which means the rookie would make about 1.8 mil ... so that would actually free up an additional 9 million and leave us with 29 million in cap space next year.

Still... I'm not sure how much of a pay cut an ancient Ray, KG and Nash would be willing to take on the 2012-13 Celtics.  Let's say they all are willing to take 7 million dollars... That might leave us with just enough money to give Jeff Green a contract starting at 7-8 million.

In other words... we might need to trade Paul Pierce to make any serious free agent noise next year.  Giving KG, Ray and Nash 1 year extensions to line up with Pierce might be a smart move as well (and we worry about attacking free agency when ALL the old dogs are off our books)