Nash & Gortat to Celtics! May help future

[PosImpos]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks. 

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

  The team just morphs it's weakness to the least athletic backcourt in the league. You could probably lump in Paul and go with the least combined athleticism in the 1-2-3 spots. Who's going to prevent  transition scoring, Nash or Allen?

I'm not saying it would make the Celtics the clear cut best team in the league or anything, but I don't doubt for a second that it would make them better.  Nash is still a very good player, and Gortat is so much better than a mishmash of JO / Stiemsma / Wilcox that it cannot possibly be overstated.

[Celtics18]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks.  

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender.  

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat.  

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

[csfansince60s]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks.  

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender.  

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat.  

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

Yah, Rondo is a far superior rebounder and defender.

Nash is far superior shooter and free throw shooter and will keep the opposing D honest where RR can't.

[Celtics18]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks.  

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender.  

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat.  

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

Yah, Rondo is a far superior rebounder and defender.

Nash is far superior shooter and free throw shooter and will keep the opposing D honest where RR can't.

Rondo makes opposing teams' defenses work harder than any other player on our team or most players on any team around the league.  And, he creates open shots for teammates with his dangerousness with the ball in his hands.

Not only is he a much better defensive and all-court player, as you say, but I would say that he's also a better offensive player at this stage of his career than Steve Nash. 

[PosImpos]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks. 

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender. 

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat. 

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

12 pts 10 assists, 21+ PER, .515 fg%, .346 3p%, .846 ft%

The only "enormous difference" is the fact that Steve Nash can actually hit free throws.

[Celtics4ever]

Steve is pretty old though and could be injury prone at his age.

[Celtics18]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks.  

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender.  

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat.  

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash.  

12 pts 10 assists, 21+ PER, .515 fg%, .346 3p%, .846 ft%

The only "enormous difference" is the fact that Steve Nash can actually hit free throws.

You forgot defense, rebounding, and game changing pace.  

[stylo617617]

revised version of the deal i would like to see is

nash/gortat/2012 phx 1st rounder

for
rondo/j.o/2012 2nd rounder

we'll have another 3.8 mill in cap next yeae after the trade & if we amnesty gortat even more cap to ether offer d-will & DH or just load up on talent next year

[BballTim]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks. 

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender. 

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat. 

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

12 pts 10 assists, 21+ PER, .515 fg%, .346 3p%, .846 ft%

The only "enormous difference" is the fact that Steve Nash can actually hit free throws.

  The fact that you think the only enormous difference between Nash and Rondo is free throws explains why you like the trade so much.

[BballTim]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks. 

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

   Who's going to prevent  transition scoring, Nash or Allen?

Gortat by getting some bounds and Nash by making the O more efficient.

Gortat will also go a long way to stopping those second chance points that have been destroying us. The other night  3 offensive rebounds on ONE possession. You gotta be ****ing me.

  Nash for Rondo won't make the offense more efficient. A few years ago that would have been the case, not so much anymore.

[PosImpos]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks. 

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender. 

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat. 

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

12 pts 10 assists, 21+ PER, .515 fg%, .346 3p%, .846 ft%

The only "enormous difference" is the fact that Steve Nash can actually hit free throws.

  The fact that you think the only enormous difference between Nash and Rondo is free throws explains why you like the trade so much.

hey, don't misunderstand me (which you seem to do, frequently) -- i think there are large differences between Rondo and Nash.  Rondo's a better rebounder, a better defender, and puts more pressure on a defense in terms of driving inside. 

my point is just that the gap between Gortat and JO is much, much, much wider than that between Rondo and Nash. 

Rondo and Nash are both very good starting point guards, and both deserved to be All-Stars last season (whether or not they both do this season is unclear, but Nash probably won't be quite at that level). 

With Nash and Rondo, we're talking about two very different yet very good players. 

With Gortat and JO, we're talking about one very good starting center and one guy who is barely rotation worthy and who probably would've retired already if he weren't getting paid.

[Eja117]

I'm not always one to preach about rules, but I believe the thread title here breaks the rule about not giving eja a heart attack. Or maybe it follows the rule about trying to give eja a heart attack. One way or another you almost gave me a heart attack, and if you do I swear to Tim Tebow I will haunt you for the rest of your days.

[Celtics18]

There is absolutely no way that Steve Nash is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo.  The notion is crazy to me.

We want to take a team whose biggest flaw is age and lack of athleticism and make them older and slower?  This puts us in title contention?

As far as it being a move for the future, as BBallTim said in another thread, you are basically trading Rondo for Gortat.  No thanks. 

It's a win-now trade.  The idea isn't that Nash is better than Rondo.  Rather, that this team's biggest weakness is the center position, and the difference between Nash and Rondo isn't so great that upgrading from JO to Gortat would not make an enormous difference.

Based on some of your other posts, I have a really hard time believing that you think replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make us a contender.  If that were the case, you'd think the Phoenix Suns are currently a contender. 

Honestly, it just sounds like an idea to clear Rondo out and start rebuilding with Marcin Gortat. 

While I'm not certain that replacing Rondo and JO with Nash and Gortat would make the Celtics a contender, I do think it would make them a much more complete and balanced team, and thus a lot better.

I don't know how or why you're jumping to the conclusion that I'd have to think the Suns are contenders . . . there's obviously an enormous difference, even now, between Jared Dudley, Grant Hill, and Channing Frye compared to the Big 3.

And, there's an obviously enormous difference between 2012 Rajon Rondo and 2012 Steve Nash. 

12 pts 10 assists, 21+ PER, .515 fg%, .346 3p%, .846 ft%

The only "enormous difference" is the fact that Steve Nash can actually hit free throws.

  The fact that you think the only enormous difference between Nash and Rondo is free throws explains why you like the trade so much.

hey, don't misunderstand me (which you seem to do, frequently) -- i think there are large differences between Rondo and Nash.  Rondo's a better rebounder, a better defender, and puts more pressure on a defense in terms of driving inside. 

my point is just that the gap between Gortat and JO is much, much, much wider than that between Rondo and Nash. 

Rondo and Nash are both very good starting point guards, and both deserved to be All-Stars last season (whether or not they both do this season is unclear, but Nash probably won't be quite at that level). 

With Nash and Rondo, we're talking about two very different yet very good players. 

With Gortat and JO, we're talking about one very good starting center and one guy who is barely rotation worthy and who probably would've retired already if he weren't getting paid.

You may be right about the difference between JO and Gortat, but the main thing against this trade is that there's a significant difference between Rondo and anyone else involved in it.  You don't trade away a player of Rondo's caliber for a player who is on his last legs in the league and another one who may never be more than a solid role player. 

[PosImpos]

You don't trade away a player of Rondo's caliber for a player who is on his last legs in the league and another one who may never be more than a solid role player.  

I understand this point of view if you're somebody who thinks Rondo is a player that we should build around.  

I am not of that opinion, so the idea of trading Rondo for two players who aren't on the same level doesn't bother me if it:

a) gives us a chance to be competitive in this, the last year of the Big 3

and

b) sets us up to jump straight into rebuilding this summer, which needs to happen one way or another.




p.s. 10k posts!  woo!

[Celtics18]

You don't trade away a player of Rondo's caliber for a player who is on his last legs in the league and another one who may never be more than a solid role player.  

I understand this point of view if you're somebody who thinks Rondo is a player that we should build around.  

I am not of that opinion, so the idea of trading Rondo for two players who aren't on the same level doesn't bother me if it:

a) gives us a chance to be competitive in this, the last year of the Big 3

and

b) sets us up to jump straight into rebuilding this summer, which needs to happen one way or another.




p.s. 10k posts!  woo!

TP for your 10,000th post even though I disagree with it. 

I do think Rondo is a player that we should build around.  Of course, I don't think that we should do our best to surround him with mediocre players once the big three ride off.

I think that starting with this year's draft and the impending cap space, that we'll have a good shot at starting to put some talent around Rondo right away.