Author Topic: Do the C's need to find a new back up point gaurd a long with a Center??  (Read 5826 times)

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Re: Do the C's need to find a new back up point gaurd a long with a Center??
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 12:04:34 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I think ball movement is the key with just about any offense, but especially when you have a unit that lacks a guy who can create his own shot and/or penetrate and kick out to create for others. If the second unit gets some good motion going on offense, that could very well open up a cutting Marquis, or Dooling and Pietrus spotting up on the three-point line, or they can run pick and pop for Bass and Stiemsma. They just have to avoid being stagnant.

I love the pick and roll/pop idea.  I am not sure why they don't run more of that.  I don't think Stiemsma has the footwork to pull it off, but both Bass and Wilcox have the skills to be very good pick and roll players.

I really hope one of their new focusses with the second unit will be running the pick and roll  off the elbow with Quisy handling the ball.  He is a very sneaky passer, and should be able to get some things going with those big men.

I also thought that Marquis would be used more as the "point guard" with the second unit.  I still think Doc will find situations where he starts to put the ball in Quis' hands more. 

I thought he looked very good in preseason and got off to a decent start, but in the last couple of games, Marquis has really struggled to find a rhythm on the floor.  We need him to be a more significant contributor off the bench.
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Re: Do the C's need to find a new back up point gaurd a long with a Center??
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 12:10:26 PM »

Offline fanofgreen

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I think ball movement is the key with just about any offense, but especially when you have a unit that lacks a guy who can create his own shot and/or penetrate and kick out to create for others. If the second unit gets some good motion going on offense, that could very well open up a cutting Marquis, or Dooling and Pietrus spotting up on the three-point line, or they can run pick and pop for Bass and Stiemsma. They just have to avoid being stagnant.

I love the pick and roll/pop idea.  I am not sure why they don't run more of that.  I don't think Stiemsma has the footwork to pull it off, but both Bass and Wilcox have the skills to be very good pick and roll players.

I really hope one of their new focusses with the second unit will be running the pick and roll  off the elbow with Quisy handling the ball.  He is a very sneaky passer, and should be able to get some things going with those big men.

The pick and roll/pop is nice, but with Quis somewhat shaky ball-handling ability, and lack of real shooting ability, it'll make him to predictable, defenders would just go under the screen every single time, (basically preventing the 'roll' aspect of the pick n roll)

What i think the 2nd unit needs to do is run a Flex offense. Something like what Sloan did in utah...you get both player and ball movement. You can go into the offense off of a pick and roll.

Without a player who can really create on their own, I think a flex-offense would really help that 2nd unit, from ever becoming stagnant.

Re: Do the C's need to find a new back up point gaurd a long with a Center??
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 12:41:35 PM »

Offline snively

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Frankly, PF is the only spot where I'm comfortable with the current backup.  Pietrus may be that guy at SF.

Yeah.  I also love Dooling, but I like him more as the backup SG than PG.  But at the same time, I don't think the need is nearly as big as it seems right now.  I think as they get more practice together, the second unit is going to get significantly better offensively. 

The other problem is that there aren't that many quality backup PGs out there.  So, an upgrade won't be very easy to find.

Why do you love Dooling?  Can't get his guys good shots as a 1, can't do anything but shoot as a 2.

I'm actually much more concerned about our back-up back-court than our front-court.  Once Wilcox starts playing to his capability, I like the mix of skills we have with our existing front-court: KG and Bass as mobile defenders and inside/outside finishers, JO as the designated post-defender and rim protector, Wilcox as the paint scorer/rebounder and Stiemsma as a shot-blocking specialist.  Could definitely use better rebounding, and another post defender, but I can see the existing rotation working.

The back-up back-court is a mess though.  Dooling hasn't proven capable of penetrating for his own shot or for others, his court vision is below-average for a PG.  He's solid but unexceptional defensively.  As a 2, his streaky shot comes in handy, but he's a terrible rebounder there and a weak defender.  That he compounds Bradley's many weaknesses makes them a terrible offensive combo.

Daniels hasn't been any better, though you'd hope his terrible 27% shooting will eventually progress to the mean (46% shooter for his career), at which point we can start appreciating the other contributions he makes.

Pietrus will help by pushing Daniels from the wing to the guard spot where he belongs, but I'm still more concerned about the backcourt than the frontcourt. 
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Re: Do the C's need to find a new back up point gaurd a long with a Center??
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 12:49:22 PM »

Offline Chris

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Frankly, PF is the only spot where I'm comfortable with the current backup.  Pietrus may be that guy at SF.

Yeah.  I also love Dooling, but I like him more as the backup SG than PG.  But at the same time, I don't think the need is nearly as big as it seems right now.  I think as they get more practice together, the second unit is going to get significantly better offensively. 

The other problem is that there aren't that many quality backup PGs out there.  So, an upgrade won't be very easy to find.

Why do you love Dooling?  Can't get his guys good shots as a 1, can't do anything but shoot as a 2.

I'm actually much more concerned about our back-up back-court than our front-court.  Once Wilcox starts playing to his capability, I like the mix of skills we have with our existing front-court: KG and Bass as mobile defenders and inside/outside finishers, JO as the designated post-defender and rim protector, Wilcox as the paint scorer/rebounder and Stiemsma as a shot-blocking specialist.  Could definitely use better rebounding, and another post defender, but I can see the existing rotation working.

The back-up back-court is a mess though.  Dooling hasn't proven capable of penetrating for his own shot or for others, his court vision is below-average for a PG.  He's solid but unexceptional defensively.  As a 2, his streaky shot comes in handy, but he's a terrible rebounder there and a weak defender.  That he compounds Bradley's many weaknesses makes them a terrible offensive combo.

Daniels hasn't been any better, though you'd hope his terrible 27% shooting will eventually progress to the mean (46% shooter for his career), at which point we can start appreciating the other contributions he makes.

Pietrus will help by pushing Daniels from the wing to the guard spot where he belongs, but I'm still more concerned about the backcourt than the frontcourt. 

Dooling is essentially a 1/2 version of Posey's 3/4.  He is not a great PG, but can get the ball up the court.  What he does though is hit the open shot on offense, and play excellent defense.  He is also a solid leader.



I do agree that the backcourt is the bigger concern at the moment, but I think a lot of it is because of a lack of cohesion.  Once they learn to play together, then I think they will be much better.  And once they replace Bradley with an NBA player like Pietrus, that will help even more.

Basically, it is hard to ask for a whole lot more from that backup guard position than what Dooling gives you.  They just need to learn how to use him a little better within the system. 

So far, they have been running the same plays with the second unit as they have with the first unit (out of necessity, because of no practice time to introduce new sets), and that just doesn't work when you don't have Rondo and Ray on the floor (two very unique skillsets).  Once they have more sets geared towards the second unit, they will be in better shape.