The "One Last Shot Then Lottery" Trade

[PosImpos]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=865dbfe


Rajon Rondo, Jermaine O'Neal, Avery Bradley, 2012 Clippers 1st round pick

for

Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Jared Dudley


Why for Boston:

With Jeff Green out for the season, the lack of depth at SF is glaring, and the Celtics' lack of depth at center was already a huge issue.  It's doubtful that Jermaine O'Neal and Marquis Daniels can be counted on for most, let alone all, of the regular season and playoffs.  If and when either of those guys goes down, the Celtics will be in deep dung.  After this season, the Celtics are looking at a rebuild with Rondo as the clear cut best player.  Rondo is the sort of player that can elevate a group of role players to a borderline playoff team, but not a contender.  That doesn't bode well for rebuilding.

Slotting in Steve Nash at PG in place of Rondo is both a large upgrade offensively and a large downgrade defensively.  Yet, slotting in Marcin Gortat in the starting lineup is a very significant upgrade on both ends of the floor.  Furthermore, adding Dudley solidifies and strengthens the bench.  Also, both Dudley and Gortat are very useful young roleplayers on reasonable long term deals.  Great value either as trade chips or as building blocks moving forward.  Giving up Bradley (lots of potential, hasn't done much yet) and the Clips pick (likely to be low after the CP3 trade) is not really giving up that much, but those are still valuable pieces to a team like Phoenix.  

Bottom line: the Celtics get one last solid shot at a title while the Big 3 are intact and then they get to dive right into rebuilding next season.  This sounds like a much better option to me than what seems very likely -- a clumsy half-rebuild attempt mid-season after health issues / struggles due to depth at the trade deadline this year (much like last season).


Why for Phoenix:

First and foremost, they shed $5 million dollars this season.  That's important to a cash strapped franchise like the Suns.  Second, they get their point guard of the future.  With Aaron Brooks playing overseas and Nash at the end of his career, the Suns have to be scrambling to find their next marketable star.  Rondo can be that guy.  Because of their financial situation, the Suns can not afford to be a bottom of the league team for a few years while they rebuild.  They need somebody to draw fans.  Rondo can be that guy.  The Suns also get a couple of decent, but not great, assets in Bradley and the Clips pick, but since they are getting the best young player in the trade AND saving money this season and moving forward, they can't complain.


Makes sense for both sides, in my opinion (I know many won't agree with me).

[Roy H.]

Haha.  Where have I seen this one before?

Going forward, this is basically Rondo + Clippers pick for Gortat and Dudley.  I'm not sure that's a win for us.  I'd rather see what other teams (like Indiana) are offering in terms of young players.

[Drucci]

Terrible trade for now and for the future, I will gladly pass on this one, thank you.

[rondohondo]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=865dbfe


Rajon Rondo, Jermaine O'Neal, Avery Bradley, 2012 Clippers 1st round pick

for

Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Jared Dudley


Why for Boston:

With Jeff Green out for the season, the lack of depth at SF is glaring, and the Celtics' lack of depth at center was already a huge issue.  It's doubtful that Jermaine O'Neal and Marquis Daniels can be counted on for most, let alone all, of the regular season and playoffs.  If and when either of those guys goes down, the Celtics will be in deep dung.  After this season, the Celtics are looking at a rebuild with Rondo as the clear cut best player.  Rondo is the sort of player that can elevate a group of role players to a borderline playoff team, but not a contender.  That doesn't bode well for rebuilding.

Slotting in Steve Nash at PG in place of Rondo is both a large upgrade offensively and a large downgrade defensively.  Yet, slotting in Marcin Gortat in the starting lineup is a very significant upgrade on both ends of the floor.  Furthermore, adding Dudley solidifies and strengthens the bench.  Also, both Dudley and Gortat are very useful young roleplayers on reasonable long term deals.  Great value either as trade chips or as building blocks moving forward.  Giving up Bradley (lots of potential, hasn't done much yet) and the Clips pick (likely to be low after the CP3 trade) is not really giving up that much, but those are still valuable pieces to a team like Phoenix.  

Bottom line: the Celtics get one last solid shot at a title while the Big 3 are intact and then they get to dive right into rebuilding next season.  This sounds like a much better option to me than what seems very likely -- a clumsy half-rebuild attempt mid-season after health issues / struggles due to depth at the trade deadline this year (much like last season).


Why for Phoenix:

First and foremost, they shed $5 million dollars this season.  That's important to a cash strapped franchise like the Suns.  Second, they get their point guard of the future.  With Aaron Brooks playing overseas and Nash at the end of his career, the Suns have to be scrambling to find their next marketable star.  Rondo can be that guy.  Because of their financial situation, the Suns can not afford to be a bottom of the league team for a few years while they rebuild.  They need somebody to draw fans.  Rondo can be that guy.  The Suns also get a couple of decent, but not great, assets in Bradley and the Clips pick, but since they are getting the best young player in the trade AND saving money this season and moving forward, they can't complain.


Makes sense for both sides, in my opinion (I know many won't agree with me).

Rondo is better than Nash at this point....

Thats like trading Gordon for Ray Allen.....

Gortat is nothing speacial to me , he is a Chris Kaman type. Which is a very useful player, but nothing you can build around and a 4th option at best on a championship team .

[KGs Knee]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=865dbfe


Rajon Rondo, Jermaine O'Neal, Avery Bradley, 2012 Clippers 1st round pick

for

Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Jared Dudley


Why for Boston:

With Jeff Green out for the season, the lack of depth at SF is glaring, and the Celtics' lack of depth at center was already a huge issue.  It's doubtful that Jermaine O'Neal and Marquis Daniels can be counted on for most, let alone all, of the regular season and playoffs.  If and when either of those guys goes down, the Celtics will be in deep dung.  After this season, the Celtics are looking at a rebuild with Rondo as the clear cut best player.  Rondo is the sort of player that can elevate a group of role players to a borderline playoff team, but not a contender.  That doesn't bode well for rebuilding.

Slotting in Steve Nash at PG in place of Rondo is both a large upgrade offensively and a large downgrade defensively.  Yet, slotting in Marcin Gortat in the starting lineup is a very significant upgrade on both ends of the floor.  Furthermore, adding Dudley solidifies and strengthens the bench.  Also, both Dudley and Gortat are very useful young roleplayers on reasonable long term deals.  Great value either as trade chips or as building blocks moving forward.  Giving up Bradley (lots of potential, hasn't done much yet) and the Clips pick (likely to be low after the CP3 trade) is not really giving up that much, but those are still valuable pieces to a team like Phoenix.  

Bottom line: the Celtics get one last solid shot at a title while the Big 3 are intact and then they get to dive right into rebuilding next season.  This sounds like a much better option to me than what seems very likely -- a clumsy half-rebuild attempt mid-season after health issues / struggles due to depth at the trade deadline this year (much like last season).


Why for Phoenix:

First and foremost, they shed $5 million dollars this season.  That's important to a cash strapped franchise like the Suns.  Second, they get their point guard of the future.  With Aaron Brooks playing overseas and Nash at the end of his career, the Suns have to be scrambling to find their next marketable star.  Rondo can be that guy.  Because of their financial situation, the Suns can not afford to be a bottom of the league team for a few years while they rebuild.  They need somebody to draw fans.  Rondo can be that guy.  The Suns also get a couple of decent, but not great, assets in Bradley and the Clips pick, but since they are getting the best young player in the trade AND saving money this season and moving forward, they can't complain.


Makes sense for both sides, in my opinion (I know many won't agree with me).

On a personal level, I don't like any trade that involves Rondo.

But, Phoenix might be willing to bite if you swapped out Bradley for Moore (although I don't think we are able to).  The rest of the league must already know by now Bradley is not an NBA level player.

Also, probably have to drop Dudley or Gortat.  No way is Phoenix giving up both of them.  I'd obviously prefer to get Gortat.

[snively]

It does make sense (probably why iterations of this idea have been bandied about so many times). 

Not sure Phoenix would be willing to trade their 3 best players (all on nice deals) for Rondo.

[KGs Knee]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=865dbfe


Rajon Rondo, Jermaine O'Neal, Avery Bradley, 2012 Clippers 1st round pick

for

Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Jared Dudley


Why for Boston:

With Jeff Green out for the season, the lack of depth at SF is glaring, and the Celtics' lack of depth at center was already a huge issue.  It's doubtful that Jermaine O'Neal and Marquis Daniels can be counted on for most, let alone all, of the regular season and playoffs.  If and when either of those guys goes down, the Celtics will be in deep dung.  After this season, the Celtics are looking at a rebuild with Rondo as the clear cut best player.  Rondo is the sort of player that can elevate a group of role players to a borderline playoff team, but not a contender.  That doesn't bode well for rebuilding.

Slotting in Steve Nash at PG in place of Rondo is both a large upgrade offensively and a large downgrade defensively.  Yet, slotting in Marcin Gortat in the starting lineup is a very significant upgrade on both ends of the floor.  Furthermore, adding Dudley solidifies and strengthens the bench.  Also, both Dudley and Gortat are very useful young roleplayers on reasonable long term deals.  Great value either as trade chips or as building blocks moving forward.  Giving up Bradley (lots of potential, hasn't done much yet) and the Clips pick (likely to be low after the CP3 trade) is not really giving up that much, but those are still valuable pieces to a team like Phoenix.  

Bottom line: the Celtics get one last solid shot at a title while the Big 3 are intact and then they get to dive right into rebuilding next season.  This sounds like a much better option to me than what seems very likely -- a clumsy half-rebuild attempt mid-season after health issues / struggles due to depth at the trade deadline this year (much like last season).


Why for Phoenix:

First and foremost, they shed $5 million dollars this season.  That's important to a cash strapped franchise like the Suns.  Second, they get their point guard of the future.  With Aaron Brooks playing overseas and Nash at the end of his career, the Suns have to be scrambling to find their next marketable star.  Rondo can be that guy.  Because of their financial situation, the Suns can not afford to be a bottom of the league team for a few years while they rebuild.  They need somebody to draw fans.  Rondo can be that guy.  The Suns also get a couple of decent, but not great, assets in Bradley and the Clips pick, but since they are getting the best young player in the trade AND saving money this season and moving forward, they can't complain.


Makes sense for both sides, in my opinion (I know many won't agree with me).

Rondo is better than Nash at this point....

Thats like trading Gordon for Ray Allen.....

Gortat is nothing speacial to me , he is a Chris Kaman type. Which is a very useful player, but nothing you can build around and a 4th option at best on a championship team .

I don't think the idea would be to keep Gortat long term.

Use him for this season, and then look to trade him for assets next season

[PosImpos]

Haha.  Where have I seen this one before?

Going forward, this is basically Rondo + Clippers pick for Gortat and Dudley.  I'm not sure that's a win for us.  I'd rather see what other teams (like Indiana) are offering in terms of young players.

well, it depends on what having a more complete and competitive team this year is worth to the C's.  i do believe this would make the celtics a much more complete, balanced, difficult to defend team this year (while not totally compromising their strengths defensively).

if the feeling is that any trade must be for rebuilding purposes only, then no, this isn't a good trade -- though I maintain that when it comes to rebuilding, you need to either commit to it completely or not at all.

[bagwell368]

If we can change the pick, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Gortat is extremely underrated center, he's defiantly in the top half of the starting centers in the league. Dudley is locked up cheap. We are defitantly a much better team for this year, and going forward we have Green, Dudley, Gortat LAC pick, cap and lottery. We fill up a tough position long term

[dark_lord]

Going forward, this is basically Rondo + Clippers pick for Gortat and Dudley.  I'm not sure that's a win for us.  I'd rather see what other teams (like Indiana) are offering in terms of young players.

Terrible trade for now and for the future, I will gladly pass on this one, thank you.

co-sign with both of these

[PosImpos]

If Dudley is the non-starter for the deal, you could always take back Grant Hill instead, but I'd hesitate to get even older.

Pietrus is an option, too, but last I heard he had a knee injury.

[KGs Knee]

If Dudley is the non-starter for the deal, you could always take back Grant Hill instead, but I'd hesitate to get even older.

Pietrus is an option, too, but last I heard he had a knee injury.

I doubt Phoenix gives up this much value for Rondo.

Most likely, the best we could get would be:

Bos: Nash, Gortat
Phx: Rondo, JO, Clipper pick

And I doubt this is even enough to get Poenix to bite.

[PosImpos]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=865dbfe


Rajon Rondo, Jermaine O'Neal, Avery Bradley, 2012 Clippers 1st round pick

for

Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Jared Dudley


Why for Boston:

With Jeff Green out for the season, the lack of depth at SF is glaring, and the Celtics' lack of depth at center was already a huge issue.  It's doubtful that Jermaine O'Neal and Marquis Daniels can be counted on for most, let alone all, of the regular season and playoffs.  If and when either of those guys goes down, the Celtics will be in deep dung.  After this season, the Celtics are looking at a rebuild with Rondo as the clear cut best player.  Rondo is the sort of player that can elevate a group of role players to a borderline playoff team, but not a contender.  That doesn't bode well for rebuilding.

Slotting in Steve Nash at PG in place of Rondo is both a large upgrade offensively and a large downgrade defensively.  Yet, slotting in Marcin Gortat in the starting lineup is a very significant upgrade on both ends of the floor.  Furthermore, adding Dudley solidifies and strengthens the bench.  Also, both Dudley and Gortat are very useful young roleplayers on reasonable long term deals.  Great value either as trade chips or as building blocks moving forward.  Giving up Bradley (lots of potential, hasn't done much yet) and the Clips pick (likely to be low after the CP3 trade) is not really giving up that much, but those are still valuable pieces to a team like Phoenix. 

Bottom line: the Celtics get one last solid shot at a title while the Big 3 are intact and then they get to dive right into rebuilding next season.  This sounds like a much better option to me than what seems very likely -- a clumsy half-rebuild attempt mid-season after health issues / struggles due to depth at the trade deadline this year (much like last season).


Why for Phoenix:

First and foremost, they shed $5 million dollars this season.  That's important to a cash strapped franchise like the Suns.  Second, they get their point guard of the future.  With Aaron Brooks playing overseas and Nash at the end of his career, the Suns have to be scrambling to find their next marketable star.  Rondo can be that guy.  Because of their financial situation, the Suns can not afford to be a bottom of the league team for a few years while they rebuild.  They need somebody to draw fans.  Rondo can be that guy.  The Suns also get a couple of decent, but not great, assets in Bradley and the Clips pick, but since they are getting the best young player in the trade AND saving money this season and moving forward, they can't complain.


Makes sense for both sides, in my opinion (I know many won't agree with me).

Rondo is better than Nash at this point....

Thats like trading Gordon for Ray Allen.....

Gortat is nothing speacial to me , he is a Chris Kaman type. Which is a very useful player, but nothing you can build around and a 4th option at best on a championship team .

it'd be like trading Eric Gordon for Ray Allen, a starting quality center (10/10/2), and a talented sixth man wing.  it would be like that if you assume that the team trading Eric Gordon was a perennial title contender diminished by age and too thin at a couple positions to seriously contend without making a trade to become more complete and balanced.

so yeah, just like that.

[PosImpos]

If Dudley is the non-starter for the deal, you could always take back Grant Hill instead, but I'd hesitate to get even older.

Pietrus is an option, too, but last I heard he had a knee injury.

I doubt Phoenix gives up this much value for Rondo.

Most likely, the best we could get would be:

Bos: Nash, Gortat
Phx: Rondo, JO, Clipper pick

And I doubt this is even enough to get Poenix to bite.

sadly, you're probably right --- Rondo's value is just not that high.  the truth is if Rondo were a 20 ppg scorer but only got 7 or 8 assists and 1 steal per night, his trade value would be 2-3 times what it is as a 10-10-2 first team all defense guy.

still, you could make the pitch to phoenix based on $$ and giving them a star they can market to keep fans interested post-Nash.  i think you could make a compelling argument to them given their circumstances.

[ManUp]

I'd consider it, but I don't think we should be the ones going the extra mile with a pick. We are offering a young star, role player, and young prospect for an aged star at retirement age and two role players. I know you don't think Rondo's value is very high, but I also don't think it's that low either. IMO, Phoenix should be the ones sweetening the pot and offering picks.