Hanley Ramirex Does Not Want To Move To 3B

[Greenbean]

Would Miami, who is clearly trying to put together a chamionship team for their first year in the new digs, take Kevin Youkilis plus a teir one prospect for Hanley to come back to Boston and play short?

I dont know who we would plug in at 3rd but I would love to get Ramirez back here.

[Fafnir]

Given his performance the past two years at SS I think if you trade for him you still want to move him to 3B.

[Greenbean]

Given his performance the past two years at SS I think if you trade for him you still want to move him to 3B.

To be totally honest I havent seen enough of his defense...is it really that bad?

[Chris]

I don't know what he is complaining about.  He is still going to play SS for the 100 games that Reyes is hurt.

[Fafnir]

Given his performance the past two years at SS I think if you trade for him you still want to move him to 3B.

To be totally honest I havent seen enough of his defense...is it really that bad?

Yes it is, and he's also been accused of dogging it at times as well.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/hanley-ramirez-not-likely-to-excel-at-third-base/

It still makes me sad that A-Rod had to move to 3B to satisfy the Yankees cult of Jeter. His defense was always quite good and he deserved the spot by his play on the field.

Rameriz has no such argument.

[Overrated]

Given his performance the past two years at SS I think if you trade for him you still want to move him to 3B.

To be totally honest I havent seen enough of his defense...is it really that bad?

Well... in this highlight he gives up on the ball, kicks it, and then jogs after it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IwPegIUpRc

[action781]

Where would Hanley bat in Boston?  He seems best suited for leadoff or at least 1-3.  Boston already has Jacoby, Dustin, and A-Gon lined up 1-3 for a while.  Crawford is already locked up for way too long in a lineup that doesn't suit him and Hanley would be a second player fitting that bill if we got him.  If we needed a lead off hitter, sure.  But in this lineup, I think I'd prefer Youk straight up who is an OBP killer (which is becoming the way of the game).

[Corey]

Where would Hanley bat in Boston?  He seems best suited for leadoff or at least 1-3.  Boston already has Jacoby, Dustin, and A-Gon lined up 1-3 for a while.  Crawford is already locked up for way too long in a lineup that doesn't suit him and Hanley would be a second player fitting that bill if we got him.  If we needed a lead off hitter, sure.  But in this lineup, I think I'd prefer Youk straight up who is an OBP killer (which is becoming the way of the game).

You mean the Youk that's a sprained knee away from being a full time DH? If you can trade Youk and specs for Hanley, you pull the trigger in a second. He's an absolute stud when motivated, and he has MVP-type talent.

You could easily fit him into the lineup. Ells-Pedy-Gonzo-Hanley-Ortiz ... L-R-L-R-L.

Dunno what you've been watching, but Hanley isn't a leadoff hitter. He's finished top 10 in OPS twice in the past 5 years, has 30+ homer power. Without going into SABR, he has a better career average and OPS than Youk with a SLIGHTLY worse OBP. He has a better BABIP, better strikeout rates, and he's a much better baserunner.

[action781]

Where would Hanley bat in Boston?  He seems best suited for leadoff or at least 1-3.  Boston already has Jacoby, Dustin, and A-Gon lined up 1-3 for a while.  Crawford is already locked up for way too long in a lineup that doesn't suit him and Hanley would be a second player fitting that bill if we got him.  If we needed a lead off hitter, sure.  But in this lineup, I think I'd prefer Youk straight up who is an OBP killer (which is becoming the way of the game).

You mean the Youk that's a sprained knee away from being a full time DH? If you can trade Youk and specs for Hanley, you pull the trigger in a second. He's an absolute stud when motivated, and he has MVP-type talent.

You could easily fit him into the lineup. Ells-Pedy-Gonzo-Hanley-Ortiz ... L-R-L-R-L.

Dunno what you've been watching, but Hanley isn't a leadoff hitter. He's finished top 10 in OPS twice in the past 5 years, has 30+ homer power. Without going into SABR, he has a better career average and OPS than Youk with a SLIGHTLY worse OBP. He has a better BABIP, better strikeout rates, and he's a much better baserunner.

Not a leadoff hitter, yet a top 10 OPS guy?

He has a career .921 OPS when batting leadoff.
Career .859 batting 3rd
Career .885 batting 4th (156 AB)

Youk has been an OPS monster and has done it in the middle of the lineup and more recently than Hanley.  Only question is injuries, which no player is totally exempt from (see Hanley 2011).

Don't get me wrong, on the majority of teams, I'd prefer Hanley; he is the better overall player.  But I think Youk is a more appropriate fit in this lineup.  I know SS is a rare position to get a great hitter at, but 3B aren't as easy to come by these days as they used to be either.

And Hanley's career OPS is better than Youk's by .003.  Over the past few seasons (2, 3, 4, whichever you want to look at), Youk has had the better OPS.  Who will have the better OPS over the next 3 seasons?  I think that's what's important.  If Vegas offered even money, I'd put quite a bit on Youk. 

[Finkelskyhook]

Where would Hanley bat in Boston?  He seems best suited for leadoff or at least 1-3.  Boston already has Jacoby, Dustin, and A-Gon lined up 1-3 for a while.  Crawford is already locked up for way too long in a lineup that doesn't suit him and Hanley would be a second player fitting that bill if we got him.  If we needed a lead off hitter, sure.  But in this lineup, I think I'd prefer Youk straight up who is an OBP killer (which is becoming the way of the game).

You mean the Youk that's a sprained knee away from being a full time DH? If you can trade Youk and specs for Hanley, you pull the trigger in a second. He's an absolute stud when motivated, and he has MVP-type talent.

You could easily fit him into the lineup. Ells-Pedy-Gonzo-Hanley-Ortiz ... L-R-L-R-L.

Dunno what you've been watching, but Hanley isn't a leadoff hitter. He's finished top 10 in OPS twice in the past 5 years, has 30+ homer power. Without going into SABR, he has a better career average and OPS than Youk with a SLIGHTLY worse OBP. He has a better BABIP, better strikeout rates, and he's a much better baserunner.

How "motivated" do you think this guy, who has dogged it in spots, would be to play for a hardass like Valentine?....Or around a group that sounds like it was pretty dysfunctional for part of last season?

I'd rather have a gamer like Youk.

[Fafnir]

Much of Hanley's value was based on his positional scarcity. If he can no longer play SS at all, then his value is far below what he was signed for.

If he can't recover offensively to what he once was, then he has a very bad contract indeed.

[Greenbean]

Where would Hanley bat in Boston?  He seems best suited for leadoff or at least 1-3.  Boston already has Jacoby, Dustin, and A-Gon lined up 1-3 for a while.  Crawford is already locked up for way too long in a lineup that doesn't suit him and Hanley would be a second player fitting that bill if we got him.  If we needed a lead off hitter, sure.  But in this lineup, I think I'd prefer Youk straight up who is an OBP killer (which is becoming the way of the game).

You mean the Youk that's a sprained knee away from being a full time DH? If you can trade Youk and specs for Hanley, you pull the trigger in a second. He's an absolute stud when motivated, and he has MVP-type talent.

You could easily fit him into the lineup. Ells-Pedy-Gonzo-Hanley-Ortiz ... L-R-L-R-L.

Dunno what you've been watching, but Hanley isn't a leadoff hitter. He's finished top 10 in OPS twice in the past 5 years, has 30+ homer power. Without going into SABR, he has a better career average and OPS than Youk with a SLIGHTLY worse OBP. He has a better BABIP, better strikeout rates, and he's a much better baserunner.

Not a leadoff hitter, yet a top 10 OPS guy?

He has a career .921 OPS when batting leadoff.
Career .859 batting 3rd
Career .885 batting 4th (156 AB)

Youk has been an OPS monster and has done it in the middle of the lineup and more recently than Hanley.  Only question is injuries, which no player is totally exempt from (see Hanley 2011).

Don't get me wrong, on the majority of teams, I'd prefer Hanley; he is the better overall player.  But I think Youk is a more appropriate fit in this lineup.  I know SS is a rare position to get a great hitter at, but 3B aren't as easy to come by these days as they used to be either.

And Hanley's career OPS is better than Youk's by .003.  Over the past few seasons (2, 3, 4, whichever you want to look at), Youk has had the better OPS.  Who will have the better OPS over the next 3 seasons?  I think that's what's important.  If Vegas offered even money, I'd put quite a bit on Youk. 

Youk's injury history really scares me. We depended on him this year and once again he broke down.

I dont want to have to keep depending on this guy.

When he is healthy, I agree with you 100%. I wouldnt trade youk  for Ramirez who seems to have character issues and is a minus defensively.

The thing is I would have traded Youk last year and kept Beltre who was a great fit here.

I understand that Beltre has never been the model of consistency either but he doesnt have the injury history that Youk does...

[Greenbean]

Much of Hanley's value was based on his positional scarcity. If he can no longer play SS at all, then his value is far below what he was signed for.

If he can't recover offensively to what he once was, then he has a very bad contract indeed.

If Ramirez' defense and character is as bad as you are indicating then I wouldnt want to trade for him...


That being said the contract doesnt scare me if last year was an aberration.

The 5 years before that his numbers looked like this:

0.313 BA
24.8 HRs
77.8 RBI
39.s STEALS
112.4 RUNS
.905 OPS

Factor in that he is 27 and I say regardless of position those numbers are MVP worthy and worthy of a big contract.


Once again though, if he is that much of a knucklehead (that kicked ball and jog act was disgusting)and his defense at short is that bad, he would not be a good fit here.

I really do want Youk out of Boston though. Cant depend on the guy to be there at the end of the year and I also have a feeling he is not a plus character guy himself. Plays hard without a doubt, but seems to get under people's skin.