Author Topic: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.  (Read 25034 times)

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Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2011, 01:45:22 PM »

Offline Jon

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For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2011, 02:29:47 PM »

Offline MF Doom

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With all of the talk of Jefferson's defensive shortcomings, half of it is simply wanting to do it. Im sure the Big Three and Doc will motivate him if he were to come here

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2011, 02:39:07 PM »

Offline mgent

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For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.
Al Jefferson is not comparable defensively to Shaq, even a 39 year old one.  Nor is he the same passer, which is what our offense relies on the most.

Not saying he wouldn't help us more than Shaq but our team definitely wouldn't be similar to last year's, it would be completely different.  We'd probably need to change the entire offense to be more inside-outside, and if you think our bench looked bad last year...

Speaking of which, I also have to doubt that we could get him here with just Jeff Green.
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Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2011, 02:46:29 PM »

Offline LB3533

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For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.

Defenses rarely doubled Shaq.

If we have Big Al, he will not fill Shaq's role, Al will have a greater role in the offense.

We will rarely run pick and rolls with Big Al which will negate Rondo's speed & penetration.

We will be running a slow it down offense and watch Big Al pound the ball down low....boring.

When the defenses double, who will be open for Big Al to kick it out to?


Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2011, 03:53:24 PM »

Offline tyrone biggums

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I would rather this team find a way to sign Battier and some other spare parts than grab Big Al. This team needs to remember that defense won them the title in 08. Big Al isn't the answer except to fans that cannot let go of the past and are still irked that the Celtics had to deal him and Gomes to get KG. Is he an offensive upgrade? of course but again Al cannot play defense, Clifford Ray worked with him a lot on this as well as his low post game...hes just a terrible defensive player.

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2011, 03:57:54 PM »

Offline mgent

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When the defenses double, who will be open for Big Al to kick it out to?

Rondo, every time.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2011, 04:02:00 PM »

Offline MF Doom

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I would rather this team find a way to sign Battier and some other spare parts than grab Big Al. This team needs to remember that defense won them the title in 08. Big Al isn't the answer except to fans that cannot let go of the past and are still irked that the Celtics had to deal him and Gomes to get KG. Is he an offensive upgrade? of course but again Al cannot play defense, Clifford Ray worked with him a lot on this as well as his low post game...hes just a terrible defensive player.

Besides where ever  Dwight Howard lands, what contender has a bigman that we need to worry much about? Kevin Garnett is still one of the better defenders in the league anyways.

Bottom line is we need to add another consistant scoring option. Sure defense played a huge key in us winning the title back in 08', but so did Pierce's heroic offensive performances . . . something that he cannot do anymore. I feel as if a lot of fans are so concerned about defense that we fail to remember that we need to score the ball too.

Unless we are able to land a guy like Battier or Prince, who can produce on both sides of the floor, I don't see why Jefferson would be a bad pick up if we can get him just from an unproven Green and a pick

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2011, 04:53:52 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.

Defenses rarely doubled Shaq.

If we have Big Al, he will not fill Shaq's role, Al will have a greater role in the offense.

We will rarely run pick and rolls with Big Al which will negate Rondo's speed & penetration.

We will be running a slow it down offense and watch Big Al pound the ball down low....boring.

When the defenses double, who will be open for Big Al to kick it out to?


For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.
Al Jefferson is not comparable defensively to Shaq, even a 39 year old one.  Nor is he the same passer, which is what our offense relies on the most.

Not saying he wouldn't help us more than Shaq but our team definitely wouldn't be similar to last year's, it would be completely different.  We'd probably need to change the entire offense to be more inside-outside, and if you think our bench looked bad last year...

Speaking of which, I also have to doubt that we could get him here with just Jeff Green.



wait wait wait . . . are both of you arguing that it would be a BAD thing if we had a post threat credible enough that we could have a more inside-outside offense AND opposing teams would have to double team inside?

oh my gosh, i have been absolutely pining away for both of those things for the past few years.


i think a lot of the anti-jefferson people are making the mistake of thinking his role both offensively and defensively would be the same as it was when he was here prior to the Big 3.  it would likely be very different, and let's not forget that Rondo, the guy feeding him the ball, has developed immeasurably as a penetrator and as a passer since 07.
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Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2011, 05:00:15 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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kevin g is a great defender but dwight howard to strong for kev


big baby played d better on howard then kev g

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2011, 05:01:22 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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When the defenses double, who will be open for Big Al to kick it out to?

Rondo, every time.


he is open all the time cuz the d know he aint got no range

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2011, 05:04:26 PM »

Offline MF Doom

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When the defenses double, who will be open for Big Al to kick it out to?

Rondo, every time.


he is open all the time cuz the d know he aint got no range

TP nothing gets passed you

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2011, 05:11:06 PM »

Offline Jon

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For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.

Defenses rarely doubled Shaq.

If we have Big Al, he will not fill Shaq's role, Al will have a greater role in the offense.

We will rarely run pick and rolls with Big Al which will negate Rondo's speed & penetration.

We will be running a slow it down offense and watch Big Al pound the ball down low....boring.

When the defenses double, who will be open for Big Al to kick it out to?


For all the potential reasons not to trade for Big Al (contract, defensive shortcomings), the post offense he would provide this year really makes up for it all.  Think how good Shaq looked with our Core Four. And that was 39-year-old, overweight Shaq, who couldn't rotate quickly enough to be an effective help defender.

If you believe we could've won it all last year with a healthy Shaq (and Rondo), you have to like our chances with Big Al at least as much, if not better.

And I'd take that over making a run at 2012 free agent, something that likely won't workout anyway.
Al Jefferson is not comparable defensively to Shaq, even a 39 year old one.  Nor is he the same passer, which is what our offense relies on the most.

Not saying he wouldn't help us more than Shaq but our team definitely wouldn't be similar to last year's, it would be completely different.  We'd probably need to change the entire offense to be more inside-outside, and if you think our bench looked bad last year...

Speaking of which, I also have to doubt that we could get him here with just Jeff Green.



wait wait wait . . . are both of you arguing that it would be a BAD thing if we had a post threat credible enough that we could have a more inside-outside offense AND opposing teams would have to double team inside?

oh my gosh, i have been absolutely pining away for both of those things for the past few years.


i think a lot of the anti-jefferson people are making the mistake of thinking his role both offensively and defensively would be the same as it was when he was here prior to the Big 3.  it would likely be very different, and let's not forget that Rondo, the guy feeding him the ball, has developed immeasurably as a penetrator and as a passer since 07.

TP

I could hardly believe what I was reading either.  I had to go back and reread my original post because I thought I was going crazy.  

Anyway, clearly Jefferson is not Shaq.  However, these two points remain:

1) Because of the attention given to our Core Four, the fifth guy on the court (usually the center) gets a lot of open looks.  Perk didn't fully take advantage of this situation, which is why BBD often was on the court instead of him and why Shaq had so much success when came here after having mixed results the previous few seasons.  

Even if we ran the exact same offense we run now, Big Al should be able to take advantage of those open looks just as much as Shaq did, if not more given his youth.  

2) Shaq was not great at defending the pick and roll, nor was he good at rotations.  If the team could dominate with his defensive shortcoming, they dominate with Big Al's too.  Especially when you consider 2B.  

2B) Furthermore, Al offers the post game that this team has desperately needed.  And I can't believe people are questioning who would hit shots if teams doubled Al.  Is that a serious question on a team with three future Hall of Famers, two of whom are two of the greatest three point shooters of all time?  Was that a joke (and I'm seriously asking that, not sarcastically saying it)?  


Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2011, 05:48:48 PM »

Offline TheBig3

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I love this idea. BIG AL!

Going forward, we'd have Pierce, Big Al, Rondo, and tons of cap room.

r basically what we had before we had the Big3

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2011, 05:57:12 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I know. It's the 24 Win Reunion Tour again.

Until Al learns to defend, he has no place on a Doc Rivers team.

NO interest whatsoever in this guy. None.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Celtics should try to bring Big Al Jefferson, now is the moment Danny.
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2011, 05:57:46 PM »

Offline coco

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I really like AJ and want to see him back, but the dude has been kind-of a disapointment I think.  He never learned to pass out of the post, never was a position rebounder and injury prone.

Like I said, I want him back but there will still be a big hole in the middle, even if he comes back.