Wishful thinking about the CP3 / D12 / Deron situations

[PosImpos]

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Exactly -- this is the reason. It's not friendship. It's talent.

Great players like to play with other great players....

...who also happen to be friends with them.

You don't see any of these players with reports coming out that they want to be playing with Zach Randolph or Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol or Deron Williams. They want to play with other great friends who also they happen to be friendly with.

The friend part is incidental.

The talent part is the one that matters. It's the opportunity to win that matters.

It's not about friendship.

I don't think it is about friendship in a vacuum, but I do think that it involves friendship to the extent that players who are good friends (e.g. James, Wade, Bosh or Melo, Paul, Amare) will get together and make plans to end up on the same team.

So a free agent might not choose a losing situation over a winning one just because he has a good friend on the team, but top players in the league, by virtue of their friendship, are likely to discuss their free agency plans and attempt to end up in the same winning situation.

[dtrader]

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Exactly -- this is the reason. It's not friendship. It's talent.

Great players like to play with other great players....

...who also happen to be friends with them.

You don't see any of these players with reports coming out that they want to be playing with Zach Randolph or Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol or Deron Williams. They want to play with other great friends who also they happen to be friendly with.

  So most of the free agents who sign with good teams do so because they have friends on the team? And is the reason that we were unable to sign available players like Shaq, JO, Quis and Sheed because they don't like Rondo and refused to be on the same team with him?

It's not that friendship is the ONLY (or even primary) reason...just that it is a major reason, and one that seems to be increasingly significant.  Obviously players want to go to teams that they see as contenders and have other good players, but thats a given.  The whole question, is when choosing between a handful of teams that are all good to great, what would push the player to make a certain choice?...I think thats where friendships come in.

  No one is saying that a player is going to take less $, to go to a bad team, just to be with his friends...but if they can make good money, and be on a good team that their friends were also on, they might take that over another good team that payed them more, or a potentially great team, that didnt have any players they had friendships with. 

It just doesnt make sense to downplay the importance that friendship has to the players decision, when they specifically say so often that they want to play with their friends. 

[clover]

I think we all know that Rondo really, really wanted to play with Perk--not just because he's a good player, but also because he's a good friend.

[Who]

It's not that friendship is the ONLY (or even primary) reason...just that it is a major reason, and one that seems to be increasingly significant.

Not buying it. It's not significant and it is not increasing.
 

The whole question, is when choosing between a handful of teams that are all good to great, what would push the player to make a certain choice?...I think thats where friendships come in.

Not buying that either. It's extremely rare when teams are in such an equal state where something as small as a friendship would become a factor.

[Who]

People are making this way too complicated. Free agency is simple. Players care about:

(1) Money
(2) Quality of team and the opportunity to win for duration of contract
(3) Style of play and their individual role in the team

Every once in a blue moon some x-factor will pop up and become an added factor in the decision. You can't control for it and there is no point in trying.

Deal with the factors within in your control and ignore the rest. Attempts to do otherwise will almost always end in misery.

[nickagneta]

People are making this way too complicated. Free agency is simple. Players care about:

(1) Money
(2) Quality of team and the opportunity to win for duration of contract
(3) Style of play and their individual role in the team

Every once in a blue moon some x-factor will pop up and become an added factor in the decision. You can't control for it and there is no point in trying.

Deal with the factors within in your control and ignore the rest. Attempts to do otherwise will almost always end in misery.

Then explain:

1. LeBron, Wade, and Bosh ending up together in Miami after being on Team USA together and supposedly discussing at length making sure they were all on the same team together years ahead of time.

2. A'Mare and Melo, two very close friends, making sure they ended up in New York together with Melo going so far as to say he would sign with no one else but New York while under contract with Denver. This was apparently talked about in depth at a wedding both attended in NYC while both were playing elsewhere.

3. KG stating vehemently that he wouldn't go to re-sign in Boston if traded there but as soon as Wally Szczerbiak was traded away and Ray Allen signed to Boston, KG changed his mind. It is pretty common knowledge that KG hates Wally and was friends with Ray Allen.


4. Chris Paul doing everything he can to possibly work his way to New York because he is so close with Melo. Just read everything that is written and has been written recently regarding this. The stories are found everywhere.

These players all know that wherever they end up a max contract will be there. Heck, Lebron and Bosh even took less than a max contract to ensure they played together. A'mare signed with New York when they sucked and had little else guaranteed to be there for him to believe that the future was going to get any better. These facts contradict your simple explanation of free agency in the NBA and show recent trends that confirm that friendships between players and plans among friends of superstar players are having an effect on how some teams are being built in today's NBA.

I just can't see how anyone can say that this isn't happening at all or isn't a factor when the best free agents become available. Chris Paul and Dwight Howard and where they end up could once again show this to be true. I guess time will tell.

[Roy H.]

4. Chris Paul doing everything he can to possibly work his way to New York because he is so close with Melo. Just read everything that is written and has been written recently regarding this. The stories are found everywhere.

This is the relevant one here, as well as the stories about Dwight wanting to play with CP3.  I think part of it is because these guys want to play with other talent, but a lot of it is also that they're tied together by friendship.

[Who]

People are making this way too complicated. Free agency is simple. Players care about:

(1) Money
(2) Quality of team and the opportunity to win for duration of contract
(3) Style of play and their individual role in the team

Every once in a blue moon some x-factor will pop up and become an added factor in the decision. You can't control for it and there is no point in trying.

Deal with the factors within in your control and ignore the rest. Attempts to do otherwise will almost always end in misery.

1. LeBron, Wade, and Bosh ending up together in Miami after being on Team USA together and supposedly discussing at length making sure they were all on the same team together years ahead of time.

* Wade = MVP caliber player
* Bosh = widely regarded as the best available big man in that FA class + top 10-15 player after his strong season in Toronto.
* Miami has a world class organization headed by Pat Riley and Micky Arison. Everyone understands their pedigree when it comes to winning.

The combination of the three offered LeBron his best chance at winning a Championship.

2. A'Mare and Melo, two very close friends, making sure they ended up in New York together with Melo going so far as to say he would sign with no one else but New York while under contract with Denver. This was apparently talked about in depth at a wedding both attended in NYC while both were playing elsewhere.

They made sure they ended up in NY together? How so?

Melo saying he would only sign an extension with NY? That is his right as a free agent. He can join whatever team he wants to. More power to him.

3. KG stating vehemently that he wouldn't go to re-sign in Boston if traded there but as soon as Wally Szczerbiak was traded away and Ray Allen signed to Boston, KG changed his mind. It is pretty common knowledge that KG hates Wally and was friends with Ray Allen.

Ray Allen = 26.4ppg, 4.5rpg, 4.1apg and one of the finest SGs of his era

Wally Szczerbiak = washed up old wing suffering from career threatening injury problems.

Let's see, why would a player rather play with Ray Allen than Wally Szczerbiak? Maybe it is because Ray Allen is a vastly superior basketball talent who in combination with Paul Pierce offered an incredible opportunity to build a Championship caliber team.

Let's recap = Money, check. Championship aspirations, check. Style of play and role, check.

4. Chris Paul doing everything he can to possibly work his way to New York because he is so close with Melo. Just read everything that is written and has been written recently regarding this. The stories are found everywhere.

Why would Chris Paul want to play in New York with Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire?

Two bonafide All-Star caliber players. Amare arguably the second best scoring big man in the league behind Dirk Nowitzki. Carmelo Anthony one of the finest, some arguably the best, pure scorers in the league today.

The three of them playing together ... hmm, you know, I think they could win a few games. Maybe even compete for a title.

Why is it strange for Chris Paul to want to play in New York? They have cap space (money). They have top tier talent. They have a nucleus that could form the core to a Championship contender. And as an added bonus (at least for now) they have D'Antoni who would be fantastic for C.Paul (like he was for S.Nash, a very similar offensive player).

Let's recap = Money, check. Championship aspirations, check. Style of play and role, check.

A'mare signed with New York when they sucked and had little else guaranteed to be there for him to believe that the future was going to get any better.

Amare went to NYC because Miami made it clear to him that he wasn't their first choice. That Chris Bosh was and that they wanted to wait on decision before moving forward with Amare.

New York said they'd sign anyone who said yes. A first come, first serve deal.

Phoenix, his previous team, refused to meet his contract demands. NJ was coming off an 11 win season. Chicago was the only other serious suitor outside of New York.

Amare choose New York for two reasons:

(1) The Knicks had enough cap space to sign Amare and then add another max contract free agent at a later date. Either in 2010, 2011 or 2012. They also had talented young players on the roster like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler who in addition to Amare + new max contract player could form the foundation to a future Championship squad. The Knicks also had Donnie Walsh; a highly respected GM with genuine credibility whose pedigree as a team-builder brought a huge amount of optimism about the Knicks future.

(2) He wanted to be the main man (role - point three on my list) after playing second fiddle to S.Nash for all those years in Phoenix.

Let's recap = Money, check. Championship aspirations, check. Style of play and role, check.

Chris Paul and Dwight Howard and where they end up could once again show this to be true. I guess time will tell.

They should do so. Not because of friendship. That is irrelevant. But because they are two hugely talented players who complement one another magnificently on the basketball and as duo would form the core to a Championship team by themselves (no need for Big Three or Big Four, dynamic duo works fine here).

[Who]

4. Chris Paul doing everything he can to possibly work his way to New York because he is so close with Melo. Just read everything that is written and has been written recently regarding this. The stories are found everywhere.

This is the relevant one here, as well as the stories about Dwight wanting to play with CP3.  I think part of it is because these guys want to play with other talent, but a lot of it is also that they're tied together by friendship.

I think it is entirely about talent and nothing to do with friendship.

Chris Paul is widely held as the #1 PG in basketball. He has held this unofficial title for 3 of the past 4 years with only injury briefly inter-reputing his supremacy. He finished 2nd in MVP vote a few years ago, fifth last season and is again widely recognized as an MVP caliber player (plus under-appreciated in last year's vote due to weak team W-L record).

And lo and behold, Chris Paul also happens to be a free agent the same year as Dwight Howard and is looking to move teams. I wonder why Dwight Howard would be thinking about playing with a player like this. Talented, available. What could it be?

And what in the world is Chris Paul thinking? Playing the most dominant big man in the league today? A player who is just entering his prime and will likely be one of the 2-3 most dominant players in the league over the next 5+ years?

Hmm ...

[nickagneta]

Who, I respect you and your basketball knowledge tremendously but on this one, I think you are completely missing the boat and dismissing way too much evidence that has presented itself.

Let's just say we agree to disagree.

[Who]

You don't see any of these players with reports coming out that they want to be playing with Zach Randolph or Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol or Deron Williams. They want to play with other great friends who also they happen to be friendly with.

As an aside to an earlier point, Dwight Howard said at last year's All Star weekend that Kobe Bryant was the #1 player he'd most like to play with in the league.

[Who]

Who, I respect you and your basketball knowledge tremendously but on this one, I think you are completely missing the boat and dismissing way too much evidence that has presented itself.

Let's just say we agree to disagree.

Yep, I think we'll have to. No way you'll convince me and no way I'll convince you.

[Who]

New Jersey Nets won 24 games last season. 11 games the year before that.

This is what I think is holding back Deron Williams and players from pointing to NJN as their main target destination.

They need to change the perception of their team and they can only do that by winning. The good news is that if they have a strong season this year and push themselves into the playoffs ... they should accomplish just that.

[Who]

Side question,

How many people here who disagree with me and feel that these friendships are a significant factor ... how many are soccer fans? How many follow soccer teams closely and for quite some time?

Do any of you think this is any different to what we see in European soccer? With players moving clubs? Joining bigger teams with better chance for silverware?

Do you think those two situations are similar? Or is this "trend" in the NBA something different altogether? Why?

[Celtics18]

I'm with you, who.  I don't know much about European soccer, but I think the "friend" connection is way overblown in the NBA.  I'm sure a lot of guys have friends around the league, but you don't hear people demanding trades to get to go play with their friend, Ryan Gomes or Deshawn Stevenson. 

If Rajon Rondo where to play like an MVP candidate and lead us to a title this year, I'm guessing Dwight Howard would be dying to be his "BFF" come next off-season.