Wishful thinking about the CP3 / D12 / Deron situations

[Roy H.]

All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up.

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

[nickagneta]

All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up.

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Another good reason why Dwight Howard would say it. excellent point. TP

[BballTim]

  So then what does Dwight do if CP3 ends up on the Knicks, decide between signing a vet min contract in NY and retiring?

Of course! He'll do one or the other because CLEARLY, Dwight Howard has no other friends or other options open to him.

Geesh BBall!!! Did I say that friendship was the ONLY determining factor? All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up. The evidence over recent years is significant that this is true.

My guess is that if DH can't get to play with CP3 somewhere he would stay in Orlando and lobby for Otis Smith to go out and get a very available Josh Smith who is making it known he no longer wants to be anywhere near Atlanta.

  I'd have to assume that if you know that CP3 is on Howard's "friends" list and Rondo isn't that you'd have a full list of his buddies.

[BballTim]

All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up.

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

  Or he could think that Rondo's better, or that they're close to equal, or that Paul's better but Rondo would be a better fit for him, or any number of things.

[Who]

  I don't know that CP3 is the key to getting Dwight. He might be friends with Paul, but Chris could end up on a team that can't fit Howard. I doubt that he would say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo", especially if Rondo has a healthy year.

I could see Howard saying exactly that. Sorry but personalities and personal friendships and loyalties have to be considered when determining where a top ranked free agent may land in today's NBA.

Unlike in prior eras, these NBA players all know each other since the time they were 12 or 13. They play in AAU teams and leagues together, hang out during summer camps together as teenagers and develop friendships and sometimes even animosities that continue until they are adults in the NBA.

Clearly, LeBron, Wade and Bosh were friends well before last year and worked the system to end up in Miami. A'Mare and Melo and Paul are all friends and this is why Paul desires to be in NY. Howard is close friends with Josh Smith and friends with Paul. I don't know if he has an opinion regarding Rondo. But if he doesn't like Rondo as much as he does Paul or even dislikes Rondo, clearly he could decide Boston would only be preferable if Paul was here and Rondo was not.

Today's NBA free agent athletes do not make destination decisions based solely on how he would fit on a team or what team gives him the best opportunity to win right away. Personal feelings about team mates, maximum money, city nightlife, and city climate are all now combined into a complex situation nowadays, especially in a league in which salary is a determinant as to where you can trade a player, which teams have the money available to sign a player and players can hold their teams hostage to manipulate where they can be sent or else be left with nothing as they go elsewhere.

I completely disagree.

Rarely a deciding factor and usually only that when all else is equal.

However, misguided GMs frequently give this factor (personal friendships) undue importance ... and go out and sign these player's friends only to find they have made incorrect assumptions about that friend(s) presence convincing their star talent to stay.

I dont know how you could say that personal friendships and preferences are rarely a factor, when players directly say all the time that theyd like to play with this player or that player, when discussing other teams.  And you have situations like cp3/melo and dwade/lebron, where you have players who are friends specifically saying that they want trades that align them with their friends.  This isnt just the media...the majority of the elite players in the league would prefer to play with their friends, and would make whatever moves they could on their part to make that happen. 

What I would say is rare, is for a player to base his decisions on where he wants to go on "the organization".  Thats just something that they say for the cameras IMO.  I highly doubt many 20 something elite athletes care about the history of the celtics, lakers, knicks, etc.  They care about today.  What city has the best weather, what team has the nicest facilities, what city has the best night life, where are the most celebrities, etc.  The clippers "organization" may suck, but the weathers great, the night life is the best, the team facilities are some of the best, and playing for them puts you in contact with celebrities every game. I can see that appealing more than a team whose city boasts frigid winters, and mediocre nightlife...but has great "history".

Players want to win. The better talent around them, the better their chances of winning.

Friendship has nothing to do with it. It's all about winning.

If the club offers winning, they'll go there. If the club doesn't, they won't.

[Who]

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Exactly -- this is the reason. It's not friendship. It's talent.

Great players like to play with other great players.

[indeedproceed]

 So then what does Dwight do if CP3 ends up on the Knicks, decide between signing a vet min contract in NY and retiring?

Of course! He'll do one or the other because CLEARLY, Dwight Howard has no other friends or other options open to him.

Geesh BBall!!! Did I say that friendship was the ONLY determining factor? All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up. The evidence over recent years is significant that this is true.

My guess is that if DH can't get to play with CP3 somewhere he would stay in Orlando and lobby for Otis Smith to go out and get a very available Josh Smith who is making it known he no longer wants to be anywhere near Atlanta.

  I'd have to assume that if you know that CP3 is on Howard's "friends" list and Rondo isn't that you'd have a full list of his buddies.

The only people who really seem to like Rondo are people who have been on his team before.

And even then, we get comments like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/01/has-rondo-started-to-wear-out-his-welcome-in-boston/

Meanwhile, Chris Paul, besides being the best point guard on the planet, gets news stories like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/30/dwight-howard-wants-to-play-with-chris-paul-jameer-who/

Just saying, its not like Nick is making any huge stretch of imagination there.

[nickagneta]

 So then what does Dwight do if CP3 ends up on the Knicks, decide between signing a vet min contract in NY and retiring?

Of course! He'll do one or the other because CLEARLY, Dwight Howard has no other friends or other options open to him.

Geesh BBall!!! Did I say that friendship was the ONLY determining factor? All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up. The evidence over recent years is significant that this is true.

My guess is that if DH can't get to play with CP3 somewhere he would stay in Orlando and lobby for Otis Smith to go out and get a very available Josh Smith who is making it known he no longer wants to be anywhere near Atlanta.

  I'd have to assume that if you know that CP3 is on Howard's "friends" list and Rondo isn't that you'd have a full list of his buddies.

The only people who really seem to like Rondo are people who have been on his team before.

And even then, we get comments like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/01/has-rondo-started-to-wear-out-his-welcome-in-boston/

Meanwhile, Chris Paul, besides being the best point guard on the planet, gets news stories like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/30/dwight-howard-wants-to-play-with-chris-paul-jameer-who/

Just saying, its not like Nick is making any huge stretch of imagination there.

And of course there is this:

Paul has reached out to Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard recently, encouraging Howard to find a way for the two to play together, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgBEanddA3DaAG6c6U9Lqda8vLYF?slug=ys-chris_paul_hornets_knicks_nba_trade_120111

And this:

Dwight Howard has been a proponent of the Magic trying to make a deal for Smith, a childhood friend, but general manager Otis Smith is low on assets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Au8F1Qszi6PZxxVlYpgEASW8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_josh_smith_hawks_nba_draft_062011

And as can be seen from the date of IP's links, these reports aren't just recent. This stuff has been talked about for over a year.

[BballTim]

 So then what does Dwight do if CP3 ends up on the Knicks, decide between signing a vet min contract in NY and retiring?

Of course! He'll do one or the other because CLEARLY, Dwight Howard has no other friends or other options open to him.

Geesh BBall!!! Did I say that friendship was the ONLY determining factor? All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up. The evidence over recent years is significant that this is true.

My guess is that if DH can't get to play with CP3 somewhere he would stay in Orlando and lobby for Otis Smith to go out and get a very available Josh Smith who is making it known he no longer wants to be anywhere near Atlanta.

  I'd have to assume that if you know that CP3 is on Howard's "friends" list and Rondo isn't that you'd have a full list of his buddies.

The only people who really seem to like Rondo are people who have been on his team before.

And even then, we get comments like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/01/has-rondo-started-to-wear-out-his-welcome-in-boston/

Meanwhile, Chris Paul, besides being the best point guard on the planet, gets news stories like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/30/dwight-howard-wants-to-play-with-chris-paul-jameer-who/

Just saying, its not like Nick is making any huge stretch of imagination there.

  I know OJ Mayo was talking about wanting to play with Rondo last year and I don't think he was the only one. Some players may like him, others may not like him but want him on their team, others may not want to have anything to do with him. Feel free to idly speculate though.

[BballTim]

 So then what does Dwight do if CP3 ends up on the Knicks, decide between signing a vet min contract in NY and retiring?

Of course! He'll do one or the other because CLEARLY, Dwight Howard has no other friends or other options open to him.

Geesh BBall!!! Did I say that friendship was the ONLY determining factor? All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up. The evidence over recent years is significant that this is true.

My guess is that if DH can't get to play with CP3 somewhere he would stay in Orlando and lobby for Otis Smith to go out and get a very available Josh Smith who is making it known he no longer wants to be anywhere near Atlanta.

  I'd have to assume that if you know that CP3 is on Howard's "friends" list and Rondo isn't that you'd have a full list of his buddies.

The only people who really seem to like Rondo are people who have been on his team before.

And even then, we get comments like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/01/has-rondo-started-to-wear-out-his-welcome-in-boston/

Meanwhile, Chris Paul, besides being the best point guard on the planet, gets news stories like this:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/30/dwight-howard-wants-to-play-with-chris-paul-jameer-who/

Just saying, its not like Nick is making any huge stretch of imagination there.

And of course there is this:

Paul has reached out to Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard recently, encouraging Howard to find a way for the two to play together, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgBEanddA3DaAG6c6U9Lqda8vLYF?slug=ys-chris_paul_hornets_knicks_nba_trade_120111

And this:

Dwight Howard has been a proponent of the Magic trying to make a deal for Smith, a childhood friend, but general manager Otis Smith is low on assets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Au8F1Qszi6PZxxVlYpgEASW8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_josh_smith_hawks_nba_draft_062011

And as can be seen from the date of IP's links, these reports aren't just recent. This stuff has been talked about for over a year.

  Thanks for that. Add Josh Smith to the list of people who have stated that they would like to play with Rondo. To add some irony, there was talk last year on this board about bringing in Smith because of Rondo and Howard because of Smith. Apparently they should have checked with you or IP for some inside info on whether that was plausible or not.

[BballTim]

 So then what does Dwight do if CP3 ends up on the Knicks, decide between signing a vet min contract in NY and retiring?

Of course! He'll do one or the other because CLEARLY, Dwight Howard has no other friends or other options open to him.

Geesh BBall!!! Did I say that friendship was the ONLY determining factor? All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up. The evidence over recent years is significant that this is true.

My guess is that if DH can't get to play with CP3 somewhere he would stay in Orlando and lobby for Otis Smith to go out and get a very available Josh Smith who is making it known he no longer wants to be anywhere near Atlanta.

  I'd have to assume that if you know that CP3 is on Howard's "friends" list and Rondo isn't that you'd have a full list of his buddies.

The only people who really seem to like Rondo are people who have been on his team before.

  So people that have played with Rondo really like him (or really like playing on his team), but this is somehow a secret that other players in the league are unaware of?

[nickagneta]

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Exactly -- this is the reason. It's not friendship. It's talent.

Great players like to play with other great players....

...who also happen to be friends with them.

You don't see any of these players with reports coming out that they want to be playing with Zach Randolph or Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol or Deron Williams. They want to play with other great friends who also they happen to be friendly with.

[Celtics18]

All I did was disagree with you that Howard wouldn't say "I'd sign with the Celts if they had CP3 and PP but wouldn't consider it if they had PP and Rondo" because friendships now DO definitely play a factor in determining where superstars end up.

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

It's also possible that Howard (or any other free agent) would consider that if he signed alongside Rondo, the team would have a considerable amount more to spend to build the rest of the pieces towards a championship contender.

[Who]

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Exactly -- this is the reason. It's not friendship. It's talent.

Great players like to play with other great players....

...who also happen to be friends with them.

You don't see any of these players with reports coming out that they want to be playing with Zach Randolph or Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol or Deron Williams. They want to play with other great friends who also they happen to be friendly with.

The friend part is incidental.

The talent part is the one that matters. It's the opportunity to win that matters.

It's not about friendship.

[BballTim]

Even beyond friendship, Dwight could think that CP3 is a better player than Rondo, and think that he would have an appreciably better chance at a championship playing next to him.

Exactly -- this is the reason. It's not friendship. It's talent.

Great players like to play with other great players....

...who also happen to be friends with them.

You don't see any of these players with reports coming out that they want to be playing with Zach Randolph or Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe Bryant or Pau Gasol or Deron Williams. They want to play with other great friends who also they happen to be friendly with.

  So most of the free agents who sign with good teams do so because they have friends on the team? And is the reason that we were unable to sign available players like Shaq, JO, Quis and Sheed because they don't like Rondo and refused to be on the same team with him?