Meeting Concludes Without Deal / Ongoing Lockout Negotiations Thread

[Roy H.]

Oh, come on:

There were no fireworks, no tantrums and no tirades. There was all the resignation and disappointment of doomsday, but none of the reality.

The reality is that the NBA owners and players, after showing most of their cards Tuesday in a bargaining session that failed to save an on-time start to the regular season, are approximately $80 million-a-year apart on the economics of a new collective bargaining agreement, multiple sources with knowledge of the negotiations told CBSSports.com.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/32511287

$80 million?  Just get it done.  That's $2.67 million per team, or roughly $178k per player.  Yes, that's a significant amount of money, but not enough to scuttle a season.  I mean, according to Stern (perhaps not the most reliable source), the league / players will lose $200 million by cancelling the preseason.  That's almost three years worth of the supposed gap.

More details:

The league's offer, according to three people familiar with it, came in a range of 49-51 -- with 49 percent guaranteed and a cap of 51 percent, the sources said.

Stern told the players and Kessler that he was bringing this proposal to his owners in an attempt to sell it, making no bones about the fact that he would. In fact, Stern said in the news conference, he did sell it. The owners were prepared to sign off on this 49-51 percent band, and with many of the most polarizing system issues resolved, the framework of a deal was in sight.

I've changed my mind.  At this point, there's no reason for a deal not to get done, hardliners or not.

[fairweatherfan]

sounds like the owners gave alot and the players still rejected it...no hard cap offered and a 50/50 split of revenue

but, i think its just posturing to try and get a deal closer to what they want...do we really think a season will be cancelled over 3% points?

The owners didn't give anything that I'm aware of - they offered to take less.  If that seems like a semantic difference, imagine negotiating your own pay raise vs your own pay cut. 

And an extra 3% is an awful lot, especially when 53/47 already translates to about an 8% cut in average player salary, on top of a lot of other concessions.  Again, imagine agreeing to a 8% pay cut and being asked to give 13% instead. 

But I hope this is posturing, and they'll work something out.  Dropping the rollbacks probably went a long way - at this point the players may just be looking to pull the owners a bit closer.

[LB3533]

It's interesting that just by canceling the preseason games the NBA will lose 200 million.

They lost all of 300 million by playing the whole season.

That's gonna be a large chunk of change lost if they cancel the whole season and the playoffs/Finals.

[KGs Knee]

The players should not accept any deal below 53/54%.

I don't think they'll agree to a deal below that threshold over the next few days, and even if they were to agree to such a deal, I don't see it passing a union-wide vote.

Well, I agree that the players should not accept anything less than a fair deal.  I even agree 53% is probably a fair deal for both sides.  But, the problem is that number is one the owners just will never agree to.

The way I see it is, the players were getting 57% and the owners intially offered 46%, so, split the difference and you get 51.5%.  Additionally, the owners are now rumored to be offering 49%, and the players had previously offered 53%.  Again, split that and you get 51%.

The offer the owners have (rumored) to make is basically 51%, although it appears it is based on certain revenue triggers being met.  Take out the triggers, and just make it a straight 51% garuantee, and I bet we'd have a deal.

[greenpride32]

It's interesting that just by canceling the preseason games the NBA will lose 200 million.

They lost all of 300 million by playing the whole season.

The $200m preseason is just revenue; mostly collections from the gate (ie tickets).

The $300m was an actual loss (vs profit) off of $2b in revenue.

[mooltrikon]

The good news is that cancelled games means cancelled TV commercials.  The fewer games which are on TV, the fewer stupid TV commercials we have to watch.

[Celtics4ever]

There is still a lot of posturing going on at the table.  Until the posturers leave the table it will be hard to negotiate.   The agents also are the third wheel in all this if I were the league I would negotiate so that they were no longer needed.

[Roy H.]

The good news is that cancelled games means cancelled TV commercials.  The fewer games which are on TV, the fewer stupid TV commercials we have to watch.

I have a feeling the stupid commercials will persist.  They always seem to find a way.

[mooltrikon]

The good news is that cancelled games means cancelled TV commercials.  The fewer games which are on TV, the fewer stupid TV commercials we have to watch.

I have a feeling the stupid commercials will persist.  They always seem to find a way.

True.  But the only thing I watch on broadcast TV is sports.  Therefore, if there are fewer games then fewer TV commercials come into my life.

[mooltrikon]

The NBA.  Where commercials happen.

[StartOrien]

The NBA.  Where commercials happen.

You mean to say that you don't find Coors Light's "Bar Exam" commercials hi-larious?

(said with as much sarcasm as possible)

[Donoghus]

I still have this sense of impending doom.... 

[Chris]

I hate all this rhetoric about a "fair deal".  When you are talking about a negotiation like this, where both sides will be making millions of dollars in profit, and really, both sides need each other, there is no such thing as "fair".  This all about getting the most you possibly can.  Right now, this is more about ego than anything.  How much can their egos handle giving up?

[greenpride32]

I hate all this rhetoric about a "fair deal".  When you are talking about a negotiation like this, where both sides will be making millions of dollars in profit

22 of 30 teams are lost money last year.  They have millions of dollars of loss, not profit.  That is the main difference between the NBA and NFL negotiations.  The majority of NFL teams are doing well because the sport is so popular, even the losing and small market teams.

[FallGuy]

I think we'll see a deal in the next week. Might lose a week or so of games, but maybe not.

This is a lot closer than it's being portrayed.

(And decertification is a red herring).