Terry Francona Done?

[TheReaLPuba]

A change was probably needed.

But it shouldn't have been this way.

Tito wasn't the problem with the club.

But because the problem was there and he wasn't able to be the solution then he felt he had to make a fresh start.

It's not right.

This year's failure is on Theo.

[Roy H.]

This year's failure is on Theo.

I'd place the blame on injuries and the players, particularly the pitching staff.

[Donoghus]

This year's failure is on Theo.

I'd place the blame on injuries and the players, particularly the pitching staff.

I'd say the majority of the blame should be placed there too although I think Theo made some miscalculations last off-season also. 

[Roy H.]

This year's failure is on Theo.

I'd place the blame on injuries and the players, particularly the pitching staff.

I'd say the majority of the blame should be placed there too although I think Theo made some miscalculations last off-season also. 

Yeah, in hindsight, a lot of the signings didn't pan out as expected.  However, I still think Crawford was a good player to target (I don't fret too much that they overpaid, since they can afford it).  Similarly, I think most of the perceived upgrades to the bullpen were smart signings.  Jenks and Wheeler were both very solid players who performed terribly, for instance. 

It's hard for me to look at a single move the Red Sox made last off-season and say, at the time, that it was a bad move.  A lot of them didn't work out, but I'm not sure that was predictable.

Now, J.D. Drew and John Lackey, I was never in love with those moves, although I expected they'd work out better than they did.

[KCattheStripe]

Too much math, not enough concern about chemistry.

[Donoghus]

Too much math, not enough concern about chemistry.

Certainly part of it, in my mind.

[cman88]

ya know, this reminds me alot of the whole deal with Claude Julien last year/this year...after the bruins collapse against the flyers people were calling for his head and the team was considering firing him....the next year they win the stanley cup and the guys job is as secure as fort knox...too often the head coach is viewed as the scape goat

at the end of the day, the players have to come out and perform...and if they arent, theres not much more a manager can do.

[Eja117]

The guy I hold squarely responsible is Theo.  He's the guy that brought in Lackey. Even guys that we generally think of as quality guys like Lester are acting like it's ok to lose with stupid statements like "It just wasn't meant to be".  What a stupid thing to say. I just wasn't meant to pitch well. I just wasn't meant to hit the ball or make a good fielding play. Well I have a contract here that says it was meant to be. It's a pretty big contract.  It's Theo's responsibility to get rid of players that hurt the team and not bring them in in the first place. Now do it.

[looseball]

I like Francona a lot and don't place much blame at all on what happened at his feet.  I think this collapse was the players' fault through & through.

It's a shame that there's a real possibility that the greatest manaager in Red Sox history is gonna be gone and the undoing really wasn't his fault.

I agree that it's a shame, but if he's worn out and unenthusiastic about returning after what's happened, perhaps it's for the best that he goes.  Whether much of the blame for the collapse can be placed on Francona or not, the collapse happened.  If the result is that both Francona and the team feel the need to move on and have something of a fresh start, then so be it.

I think perhaps both the team and Francona suffered this year from the "curse of more" even though they haven't won a title since '07.  Many of the players on the team have already won a title and have enjoyed success and the expectation of success since they've been here.  It might be refreshing to get a new voice in the dugout, somebody who hasn't won a title before and is hungry, fiery, and energetic -- somebody who can transfer that kind of passion to the players. 

I've always appreciated Tito's even keeled demeanor; it reminds me a lot of Doc Rivers, actually, and to a lesser extent Bill Bellichick.  But what separates both Rivers and Tito from Bellichick, in my mind, is that they are not as relentlessly critical and hungry for improvement and greater success in the same way that Bellichick is.  Bill is always looking for things to improve.  He's always pushing his players to be better.  He is the kind of coach that molds a team to fit his personality.  His players respect, even revere him, but he is not one of them. 

I think at times both Tito and Rivers seem to be too much "one of the guys" -- in other words, "player coaches" -- and I think that can hurt them when it comes to holding guys accountable and motivating them even when things are boring or the going gets tough. 

I think this is a good analysis of Tito, Doc and Bellichick.  I always considered Tito and Doc to be great clubhouse managers, who treated the players fairly, and kept egos in check.   The players really played hard for them, and when they had the best players, they won. I don't think either of them was a great game manager, but they had such a good rapport with the media they escaped criticism of their shortcomings.    (Bellichick gets more media criticism than both of them put together.)

In the end, the manager has a shelf life just as a player does.  If Francona was losing some of his clubhouse control, and this being his greatest strength, it's time for a change.  A stricter disciplinarian is now needed, if only as an interim measure.  Tito had a good run here, and will be highly in demand.

[nickagneta]

I Tito is gone and Theo isn't, then I am going to assume that Tito is gone because he wanted to be gone, not because management wanted him gone.

Then again, its always easier to fire a manager than it is to trade away 25 players.

[PosImpos]

Bob Ryan has suggested in an article for the Globe that Bobby Valentine would be a name to consider if Tito indeed is not returning.

Thoughts?

[hwangjini_1]

too bad about tito, i liked him as a manager. he is a good one.

but 7 years of being in the spotlight in boston can wear anyone down, especially if they have to travel and have health problems as tito does.

i never thought he would be with the sox forever, so this day was bound to come.

i expect a lot more in the way of changes from the sox.

one constant, though, will be crawford. he is staying since he is coming out of his worse career year, they will give him a chance to rebound. beside, not many GMs would trade for him after this year and his salary.

lacky, on the other hand, is a problem - both as a pitcher and as a locker room cancer. he really is a jackass. in the eyes of the sox, he may not rebound next year and he is too expensive to trade. it would take a subsidy the size of the Marshall plan to move his ugly butt out of boston. he was a truly bad signing by theo.

papi maybe gone since cheaper options exist and papelborn will not come cheap.

youky has trade value, thought it drops each year he ages. so who knows about his future with the sox.

the bull pen will be cleaned out - save for bard, aceves, and pabelborn, and even pabelborn might not be resigned.

tek, i hope, will gracefully accept a position as coach and stop making me flinch everytime he steps to the plate. lavarnway should be the back up next year.

also, expect more coaching changes. a cleaning house on their medical team. and their pro-level player scouts should be out the door after signing off on crawford and lacky.

an interesting off season awaits us sox fans.

[TheReaLPuba]

This year's failure is on Theo.

I'd place the blame on injuries and the players, particularly the pitching staff.

I'd say the majority of the blame should be placed there too although I think Theo made some miscalculations last off-season also. 

Theo ultimately brought in the guys that led to Tito's frustrations and thus him leaving.

Lackey, Drew, Youk, Crawford, etc. all underperformed or got hurt or couldn't stay in the team-frame of mind.

You can argue that they were good signings or additions at the time but when you project their production and positives they never measured up and more so they didn't help the team become a team which Francona couldn't fix.

Now we're stuck with guys we have to play or pay and if we play them they will either A. Get hurt, B. Stink it up or we trade them and still pay them.

Sox are in a very tough position from here on out.

[PosImpos]

This year's failure is on Theo.

I'd place the blame on injuries and the players, particularly the pitching staff.

I'd say the majority of the blame should be placed there too although I think Theo made some miscalculations last off-season also.  

Theo ultimately brought in the guys that led to Tito's frustrations and thus him leaving.

Lackey, Drew, Youk, Crawford, etc. all underperformed or got hurt or couldn't stay in the team-frame of mind.

You can argue that they were good signings or additions at the time but when you project their production and positives they never measured up and more so they didn't help the team become a team which Francona couldn't fix.

Now we're stuck with guys we have to play or pay and if we play them they will either A. Get hurt, B. Stink it up or we trade them and still pay them.

Sox are in a very tough position from here on out.

Eh, I don't think the situation is really all that bad.

Crawford had a bad year, but he's still young and I think it's safe to say that his underproduction this year was in large part a mental thing.  He may never be as great as he was in Tampa Bay, but I expect him to bounce back and be an impact player next year.  

JD Drew will be gone, and Youkilis, despite nagging injuries every year, has been quite productive when he has played.  

As for Lackey, we won't be able to get rid of him, but I think there's a chance he might be redeemable as a solid end of rotation guy.  I doubt we'll see anything close to what we saw out of him this year again.

If the Red Sox get a new manager that can be close to the same caliber as Terry Francona, only perhaps with a slightly sterner, more energetic style, this team may be really good next year.  They still have, for the most part, an extremely good roster on paper.  The difficulty will be getting them to perform at that level, and shoring up some of the glaring holes (bullpen, getting another top 3 starting pitcher).

[TheReaLPuba]

This year's failure is on Theo.

I'd place the blame on injuries and the players, particularly the pitching staff.

I'd say the majority of the blame should be placed there too although I think Theo made some miscalculations last off-season also.  

Theo ultimately brought in the guys that led to Tito's frustrations and thus him leaving.

Lackey, Drew, Youk, Crawford, etc. all underperformed or got hurt or couldn't stay in the team-frame of mind.

You can argue that they were good signings or additions at the time but when you project their production and positives they never measured up and more so they didn't help the team become a team which Francona couldn't fix.

Now we're stuck with guys we have to play or pay and if we play them they will either A. Get hurt, B. Stink it up or we trade them and still pay them.

Sox are in a very tough position from here on out.

Eh, I don't think the situation is really all that bad.

Crawford had a bad year, but he's still young and I think it's safe to say that his underproduction this year was in large part a mental thing.  He may never be as great as he was in Tampa Bay, but I expect him to bounce back and be an impact player next year.  

JD Drew will be gone, and Youkilis, despite nagging injuries every year, has been quite productive when he has played.  

As for Lackey, we won't be able to get rid of him, but I think there's a chance he might be redeemable as a solid end of rotation guy.  I doubt we'll see anything close to what we saw out of him this year again.

If the Red Sox get a new manager that can be close to the same caliber as Terry Francona, only perhaps with a slightly sterner, more energetic style, this team may be really good next year.  They still have, for the most part, an extremely good roster on paper.  The difficulty will be getting them to perform at that level, and shoring up some of the glaring holes (bullpen, getting another top 3 starting pitcher).

Crawford isn't young he's like 31.

He won't be anywhere close to being good as he was in Tampa. His personality doesn't fit with the pressures of Boston.

Youk can't stay healthy for the entire season. Where do they play him? He's a terrible 3B and he can only play 1B or DH.

Lackey might have a better year once he gets passed his personal issues but he still will be over paid immensely.

Who the heck is going to manage this team?

The Sox are basically starting completely over!