Author Topic: Terry Francona Done?  (Read 11350 times)

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Terry Francona Done?
« on: September 30, 2011, 09:24:45 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Espn has a couple articles up today analyzing the press conference yesterday, both suggesting quite strongly that Terry Francona is on his way out as Sox manager.

Cited as reasons are the painfully apparent lack of conditioning, urgency, chemistry, focus, preparedness, and above all leadership in the locker room this season -- things which have been strengths in the past.

I dont know if all of that is really Francona's fault, but when something like this happens, somebody needs to be held accountable. It sounds like Tito might feel that it's time for him to go anyway.

Both Tito and Theo implied in their statements that there were a few specific players in the locker room who were very "me first" or just not on the same page as everyone else. John Lackey is the first guy that comes to mind, but I wonder who else was negatively affecting team chemistry. 
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 09:26:57 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The question is, who would replace him? 

I'm not 100% adverse to a change in leadership, but it would have to be an upgrade, and I think we're probably talking about a small number of managers who fit that description.


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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 09:43:51 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I know this was an epic collapse... but I still can't comprehend that the skipper who led the Sox to their first title in 86 years (and another one 2 years later) would be out 7 years after that 1st title.
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 09:45:07 AM »

Online Moranis

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Not a Red Sox fan at all, but I think it would be silly to fire Francona.  Totally not his fault that his team stopped pitching and stopped hitting.  A manager can only manage what he has and the Red Sox just stopped playing in September and I put that on the players way more then the manager.
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 09:51:02 AM »

Offline Redz

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Beyond the obvious successes Francona has had here, I have enjoyed his persona quite a bit.  It would be a bummer to see him go, but aparently he is intent on beating the Sox to the punch and opting out of an increasingly diificult situation. 

It's a bummer.
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 09:59:57 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Not a Red Sox fan at all, but I think it would be silly to fire Francona.  Totally not his fault that his team stopped pitching and stopped hitting.  A manager can only manage what he has and the Red Sox just stopped playing in September and I put that on the players way more then the manager.

I dont entirely disagree, but I think it was pretty clear that there was a lack of accountability, leadership, focus, and other intangibles, and I think that falls in large part on the manager.  I like Tito a lot, but it may be best for everyone if theres a change. Perhaps it will inspire the players in some ways to have a new voice or presence in the dugout / locker room.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 10:08:52 AM by PosImpos »
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 10:22:18 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I like Francona a lot and don't place much blame at all on what happened at his feet.  I think this collapse was the players' fault through & through.

It's a shame that there's a real possibility that the greatest manaager in Red Sox history is gonna be gone and the undoing really wasn't his fault.


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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 10:27:57 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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I like Francona a lot and don't place much blame at all on what happened at his feet.  I think this collapse was the players' fault through & through.

It's a shame that there's a real possibility that the greatest manaager in Red Sox history is gonna be gone and the undoing really wasn't his fault.

I agree that it's a shame, but if he's worn out and unenthusiastic about returning after what's happened, perhaps it's for the best that he goes.  Whether much of the blame for the collapse can be placed on Francona or not, the collapse happened.  If the result is that both Francona and the team feel the need to move on and have something of a fresh start, then so be it.

I think perhaps both the team and Francona suffered this year from the "curse of more" even though they haven't won a title since '07.  Many of the players on the team have already won a title and have enjoyed success and the expectation of success since they've been here.  It might be refreshing to get a new voice in the dugout, somebody who hasn't won a title before and is hungry, fiery, and energetic -- somebody who can transfer that kind of passion to the players. 

I've always appreciated Tito's even keeled demeanor; it reminds me a lot of Doc Rivers, actually, and to a lesser extent Bill Bellichick.  But what separates both Rivers and Tito from Bellichick, in my mind, is that they are not as relentlessly critical and hungry for improvement and greater success in the same way that Bellichick is.  Bill is always looking for things to improve.  He's always pushing his players to be better.  He is the kind of coach that molds a team to fit his personality.  His players respect, even revere him, but he is not one of them. 

I think at times both Tito and Rivers seem to be too much "one of the guys" -- in other words, "player coaches" -- and I think that can hurt them when it comes to holding guys accountable and motivating them even when things are boring or the going gets tough. 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 10:33:53 AM by PosImpos »
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 10:29:59 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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I like Francona a lot and don't place much blame at all on what happened at his feet.  I think this collapse was the players' fault through & through.

It's a shame that there's a real possibility that the greatest manaager in Red Sox history is gonna be gone and the undoing really wasn't his fault.

I agree that it's a shame, but if he's worn out and unenthusiastic about returning after what's happened, perhaps it's for the best that he goes.  Whether much of the blame for the collapse can be placed on Francona or not, the collapse happened.  If the result is that both Francona and the team feel the need to move on and have something of a fresh start, then so be it. 

I agree that if he's worn out and unenthusiastic, then it is time for a change.  If he's recognizing that and letting it be known, then its a good thing.


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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 10:33:03 AM »

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I think you should all blame Bill Buckner.  Goes on Curb Your Enthusiam making fun of everything and after the show airs, the Red Sox finish 6-18.  Clearly it is Buckner's fault.
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2011, 10:34:52 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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I think you should all blame Bill Buckner.  Goes on Curb Your Enthusiam making fun of everything and after the show airs, the Red Sox finish 6-18.  Clearly it is Buckner's fault.

Saves us the trouble of finding a new scapegoat, at least.
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2011, 10:59:24 AM »

Offline Bahku

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An ESPN reporter just said that Francona told his team in the locker room yesterday that he would not be back. Really a shame, considering what he's done here, but when an epic fail like this happens, that's usually the first major head to roll. Always liked the guy and his work ethic, (for the most part), and he was well respected, (I won't miss his constant spitting, though ;)).
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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2011, 11:02:44 AM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2011, 11:06:48 AM »

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I think Tito wanted out.

This year was the last straw.

The team just stopped doing what it was suppose to do.

And it stopped being a team that Tito respected.

I think his frustration level just went off the charts and he probably wouldn't have come back even if they had won the WS.

Re: Terry Francona Done?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 11:10:52 AM »

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The NY Daily news is reporting that the decision not to bring Tito back was Henry's, rather than Theo's.

Meanwhile, other sources are saying that this was Tito's call, and that he was frustrated with the team.

Various links here: http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2011/09/terry_francona.html


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