Author Topic: Your All Time Team  (Read 17271 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Your All Time Team
« Reply #75 on: July 31, 2011, 02:06:24 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
C - Arvydas Zabonis
PF - Vlade Divac
SF - Dirk
SG - Drazen Petrovic
PG - Sarunas Jasikevicus

Back ups

C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PF Dino Raja
SF Toni Kukoc
SG Manu Ginobli
PG Ricky Rubio

11th man Marc Gasol
12 man Andrea Bargnani

beat that mo fo

Everybody talks like they got somethin to say, but nothin comes out when they move their lips. Just a bunch of gibberish and you mother fudgers act like you forgot about the Euros

No Parker or Gasol?  What about Detlef Schrempf or Rik Smits? 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Your All Time Team
« Reply #76 on: July 31, 2011, 03:12:56 PM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
C - Arvydas Zabonis
PF - Vlade Divac
SF - Dirk
SG - Drazen Petrovic
PG - Sarunas Jasikevicus

Back ups

C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PF Dino Raja
SF Toni Kukoc
SG Manu Ginobli
PG Ricky Rubio

11th man Marc Gasol
12 man Andrea Bargnani

beat that mo fo

Everybody talks like they got somethin to say, but nothin comes out when they move their lips. Just a bunch of gibberish and you mother fudgers act like you forgot about the Euros

No Parker or Gasol?  What about Detlef Schrempf or Rik Smits? 

OScar Smith of brazil over Dirk at SF
and Dirk at PF over Vlade
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Your All Time Team
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2011, 07:29:30 PM »

Offline greg_kite

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 851
  • Tommy Points: 71
Regarding Russell's offense there is something that people need to know. Russell was the 3rd, 4th or even 5th offensive option on most of the teams he played on. Heinsohn, Cousy, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Frank Ramsey, and Havlicek were all offensive options that came before Russell.

Also, for many of those teams, Russell was playing 44-46 MPG whereas the next player in minutes was around 30-36 MPG. The reason is because of Auerbach's system in which defense and fast break basketball ruled the day and he needed Russell playing huge minutes to anchor the defense and start the fast break with rebounding and outlet passing.

Also, regarding Russell's FG%, let's remember that in those days there was no three point line to spread defenses out and give big men room to work. The game was much more physical to the point where people would get into fights on a near weekly basis and never get thrown out of the game.

That all means major hacking and pushing and elbowing and punching when big men went up to shoot. It meant a lot more people around to do that since offenses always tried to push the ball inside and defenses stayed in tight. A long shot was a 17 footer.

All big man FG%s were down in those days as compared to now due to the rules changes.

Lastly, Bill Russell might have been the smartest basketball player ever. Why did Wilt post such big numbers on Russell at times? because he demanded his team get him the ball every time and because Russell always let Wilt get his points and rebounds early while Russell coasted so that Russell would be able to have the energy to outplay him in 4th quarters to win games. Wilt was all about numbers. Russell was all about winning. Russell didn't care how much Wilt scored from the 1st-3rd quarters just so long as he could shut him down in the 4th quarter and the Celtics could win, which they did over and over and over again.

Why people are so quick to crown a 6'6" modern day era player as being able to do anything in the game and change the game and be the best player ever but overlook the fact that a 6'9" older era player couldn't do those same things and change a game and be the best player ever astounds me.

Heinsohn, Auerbach, Cousy, just about any Celtic has said it 1000 times. If Russell wanted to average 50 points a game he could have. If he wanted to average 40 rebounds a game he could have. He chose not to because it wasn't in the best interest of his TEAM.

Russell didn't lack offensive skill. He just didn't use the skills he had to their fullest because it wasn't in the best interest of his team winning. His playing unreal defense, rebounding like a fiend and making excellent outlet passes were in that team's best interest and 11 titles says he made the right decision.
Well didn't Wilt shoot well over 50%?  Closer to 60 actually.  And if Russell was the 3rd or 4th option he should have shot a better percentage, only taking good shots, like dunks or put backs.  If Russ was capable of being the best scorer it would be foolish to let someone take harder shots.  Always go to the best option.  If Russ was the best scoring option they would have gone to him.

And how is it smart "letting" a guy score for the first three quarters?  Sounds like he coasted on D for 3 quarters to me.  We all know he didn't but I don't think it's a good idea to ever let someone score.  Especially if it's for 75% of the game.  I think it's smarter to shut someone down an entire game if you're capable of it.  If he claimed that he was "letting him score" then he was full of it.

And I really can't believe you're saying Russell had the same skill level as Michael Jordan, if that's who you're referring to.

Re: Your All Time Team
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2011, 07:37:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Regarding Russell's offense there is something that people need to know. Russell was the 3rd, 4th or even 5th offensive option on most of the teams he played on. Heinsohn, Cousy, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Frank Ramsey, and Havlicek were all offensive options that came before Russell.

Also, for many of those teams, Russell was playing 44-46 MPG whereas the next player in minutes was around 30-36 MPG. The reason is because of Auerbach's system in which defense and fast break basketball ruled the day and he needed Russell playing huge minutes to anchor the defense and start the fast break with rebounding and outlet passing.

Also, regarding Russell's FG%, let's remember that in those days there was no three point line to spread defenses out and give big men room to work. The game was much more physical to the point where people would get into fights on a near weekly basis and never get thrown out of the game.

That all means major hacking and pushing and elbowing and punching when big men went up to shoot. It meant a lot more people around to do that since offenses always tried to push the ball inside and defenses stayed in tight. A long shot was a 17 footer.

All big man FG%s were down in those days as compared to now due to the rules changes.

Lastly, Bill Russell might have been the smartest basketball player ever. Why did Wilt post such big numbers on Russell at times? because he demanded his team get him the ball every time and because Russell always let Wilt get his points and rebounds early while Russell coasted so that Russell would be able to have the energy to outplay him in 4th quarters to win games. Wilt was all about numbers. Russell was all about winning. Russell didn't care how much Wilt scored from the 1st-3rd quarters just so long as he could shut him down in the 4th quarter and the Celtics could win, which they did over and over and over again.

Why people are so quick to crown a 6'6" modern day era player as being able to do anything in the game and change the game and be the best player ever but overlook the fact that a 6'9" older era player couldn't do those same things and change a game and be the best player ever astounds me.

Heinsohn, Auerbach, Cousy, just about any Celtic has said it 1000 times. If Russell wanted to average 50 points a game he could have. If he wanted to average 40 rebounds a game he could have. He chose not to because it wasn't in the best interest of his TEAM.

Russell didn't lack offensive skill. He just didn't use the skills he had to their fullest because it wasn't in the best interest of his team winning. His playing unreal defense, rebounding like a fiend and making excellent outlet passes were in that team's best interest and 11 titles says he made the right decision.
Well didn't Wilt shoot well over 50%?  Closer to 60 actually.  And if Russell was the 3rd or 4th option he should have shot a better percentage, only taking good shots, like dunks or put backs.  If Russ was capable of being the best scorer it would be foolish to let someone take harder shots.  Always go to the best option.  If Russ was the best scoring option they would have gone to him.

And how is it smart "letting" a guy score for the first three quarters?  Sounds like he coated on D for 3 quarters to me.  We all know he didn't but I don't think it's a good idea to ever let someone score.  Especially if it's for 75% of the game.  I think it's smarter to shut someone down an entire game if you're capable of it.  If he claimed that he was "letting him score" then he was full of it.

And I really can't believe you're saying Russell had the same skill level as Michael Jordan, if that's who you're referring to.
You obviously have very little experience with basketball of that era or Bill Russell. Bill Russell's impact on the game and his ability to effect a game, even against much bigger players was greater than Jordan's. THAT is what I am saying.

The fact that the youth of today can't grasp that simply because they didn't see Russell on television every night in an ESPN highlight reel or can't youtube a vid of him doing dunks is unfathomable to me.

Re: Your All Time Team
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2011, 08:09:44 PM »

Offline greg_kite

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 851
  • Tommy Points: 71
Regarding Russell's offense there is something that people need to know. Russell was the 3rd, 4th or even 5th offensive option on most of the teams he played on. Heinsohn, Cousy, Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Frank Ramsey, and Havlicek were all offensive options that came before Russell.

Also, for many of those teams, Russell was playing 44-46 MPG whereas the next player in minutes was around 30-36 MPG. The reason is because of Auerbach's system in which defense and fast break basketball ruled the day and he needed Russell playing huge minutes to anchor the defense and start the fast break with rebounding and outlet passing.

Also, regarding Russell's FG%, let's remember that in those days there was no three point line to spread defenses out and give big men room to work. The game was much more physical to the point where people would get into fights on a near weekly basis and never get thrown out of the game.

That all means major hacking and pushing and elbowing and punching when big men went up to shoot. It meant a lot more people around to do that since offenses always tried to push the ball inside and defenses stayed in tight. A long shot was a 17 footer.

All big man FG%s were down in those days as compared to now due to the rules changes.

Lastly, Bill Russell might have been the smartest basketball player ever. Why did Wilt post such big numbers on Russell at times? because he demanded his team get him the ball every time and because Russell always let Wilt get his points and rebounds early while Russell coasted so that Russell would be able to have the energy to outplay him in 4th quarters to win games. Wilt was all about numbers. Russell was all about winning. Russell didn't care how much Wilt scored from the 1st-3rd quarters just so long as he could shut him down in the 4th quarter and the Celtics could win, which they did over and over and over again.

Why people are so quick to crown a 6'6" modern day era player as being able to do anything in the game and change the game and be the best player ever but overlook the fact that a 6'9" older era player couldn't do those same things and change a game and be the best player ever astounds me.

Heinsohn, Auerbach, Cousy, just about any Celtic has said it 1000 times. If Russell wanted to average 50 points a game he could have. If he wanted to average 40 rebounds a game he could have. He chose not to because it wasn't in the best interest of his TEAM.

Russell didn't lack offensive skill. He just didn't use the skills he had to their fullest because it wasn't in the best interest of his team winning. His playing unreal defense, rebounding like a fiend and making excellent outlet passes were in that team's best interest and 11 titles says he made the right decision.
Well didn't Wilt shoot well over 50%?  Closer to 60 actually.  And if Russell was the 3rd or 4th option he should have shot a better percentage, only taking good shots, like dunks or put backs.  If Russ was capable of being the best scorer it would be foolish to let someone take harder shots.  Always go to the best option.  If Russ was the best scoring option they would have gone to him.

And how is it smart "letting" a guy score for the first three quarters?  Sounds like he coated on D for 3 quarters to me.  We all know he didn't but I don't think it's a good idea to ever let someone score.  Especially if it's for 75% of the game.  I think it's smarter to shut someone down an entire game if you're capable of it.  If he claimed that he was "letting him score" then he was full of it.

And I really can't believe you're saying Russell had the same skill level as Michael Jordan, if that's who you're referring to.
You obviously have very little experience with basketball of that era or Bill Russell. Bill Russell's impact on the game and his ability to effect a game, even against much bigger players was greater than Jordan's. THAT is what I am saying.

The fact that the youth of today can't grasp that simply because they didn't see Russell on television every night in an ESPN highlight reel or can't youtube a vid of him doing dunks is unfathomable to me.
I believe his impact back then was every bit as much as Jordan's.  I just don't think he would still be as dominant today or would have been in the 90s, when there were at least 5 other Hall of Fame quality centers playing (Shaq, Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning) and then many others with considerable size and skill (Divac, Smits, etc)  There were also a number of power forwards bigger than Russell who would have dominated in the 60s (Malone, Kemp, Webber, Coleman).  Russell had one guy in his league athletically, Wilt.  He was supposed to dominate and he did.