Your All Time Team

[greg_kite]

I'll take my chances with:

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Russell

So you really think Russell could match up with Shaq, Yao or even Hakeem?  I know he was great in the 60s, and I never saw him so it's hard to argue my case, but he was 6'9", 215 and shot low 40s percentage wise.  I respect your hoops knowledge as much as anyone Roy but I think your love of Celtics history is trumping how he would actually match up against other big guys who probably had more skill that Wilt (who actually put up some pretty sick numbers against Russell by the way).

Can't put up too much of an argument against the rest of your team.  

When considering guys for all-time teams, I always look to their dominance against their peers, rather than trying to make arguments centered around height, athleticism, etc.  If you gave Russell the advantages modern players have, his athleticism would have been better.  Heck, to go even farther, it's likely that Russell would be taller if born today, as well; the height of the average person has increased about 1.5" since 1960.  Perhaps that's a bridge too far, but it just gets into the difficulties of comparing players of different eras.

Russell's defense was the most dominant skill in perhaps the history of the NBA.  He's also the biggest winner in the history of the sport.  That has to count for something.

I know he was dominant but that was against guys who were much less athletic.  The point of this is to not factor in what they did in the past, but how they would do against other players in their prime.  I will probably get killed for this here but skill wise I don't think Russell would be much better than a Ben Wallace type.  He had little offensive skill besides being bigger and faster than everyone.  His defense was solid but could he really keep Shaq out of the paint?  Or get up high enough to block his shot?  Or Yao's?

[Roy H.]

Wilt Chamberlain was as athletic as just about any center in history, and Russell handled him just fine.  With all respect possible, I think that comparing Russell to Ben Wallace does Russell a grave disservice.

[2short]

For this I think you need backups for the best team soooo

pg magic, stockton
sg, jordan, oscar robertson
sf bird
pf duncan
c russell olajuwan

gotta think about backup pf and sf and no rick barry isn't making the squad  
kevin garnett at pf backup
julius erving at sf backup...maybe

[greg_kite]

Wilt Chamberlain was as athletic as just about any center in history, and Russell handled him just fine.  With all respect possible, I think that comparing Russell to Ben Wallace does Russell a grave disservice.

How did he handle him fine?  Wilt had ridiculous stats against Russell but he wasn't a team player and had a worse team to boot.  And he still won it all in 67 because he was better than Russell.  And Wilt didn't even have range outside of maybe 5 feet, mostly because he didn't have to.

And why is it a disservice?  Wallace is another guy with little offense besides dunks and layups.  Did Russell have post moves or a 15 footer that I haven't heard about?  He shot low 40s against horrible athletes.  Imagine how he would score against guys who are as athletic or more athletic than him?  

And Ben Wallace is no slouch, probably the best defensive undersized big man that I've ever seen.  If I needed a guy to stop a bruising forward like Karl Malone, Zach Randolph etc I would go with Wallace.  I just couldn't depend on him to score on the other end against elite defense.  Could you depend on Russell to score in the clutch against a guy like Hakeem, David Robinson or Dwight Howard?

[greg_kite]

For this I think you need backups for the best team soooo

pg magic, stockton
sg, jordan, oscar robertson
sf bird
pf duncan
c russell olajuwan

gotta think about backup pf and sf and no rick barry isn't making the squad 

Haha I think Russell would kill Barry if they were on the same team.  Whole other dynamic if you add a bench though.  That could definitely change the starting 5.

[aporel#18]

Magic
Havlicek
Bird
Russell
Chamberlain

6th man:

Michael Jordan

key reserves:

Oscar Robertson
George Gervin
Kevin McHale
Hakeem Olajuwon

11th man: Pete Maravich
12th man: Shaq "the rookie" O'Neal

I don't think Durant, LeBron or Kobe make the roster, but if any of them made it, send him to the DLeague.

Any team trying to stop Magic AND Bird will open the painted area to Wilt (Shaq would do fine, too). That's a guaranteed 40-12, and then Russell and Hondo would crush the opponents on defense (you want to win, right?). Finally, you unleash "microwave" Jordan off the bench, who can defend and attack plus the uber-talented reserves who can score at will to extend the lead. They go 82-0 and 16-0.

Any All-Star team built with today's players would look like the Washington Generals. And I love the Big 3, but those guys were something else.


 

[BballTim]

Magic
Jordan
Bird
McHale
Olajuwon  this have to be shaq but i like olajuwon spacing the floor


a nightmare for defense under

For me Bird and Magic were difficult to leave off, but I think there are plenty of players they would have difficulty guarding.  Magic was terrible at covering point guards.  Jordan would have to cover the PG and Magic and Larry would be left to cover opposing wing players.  It would be a nightmare for either of them to have to cover Kobe, Lebron, Wade or even a guy like Ray Allen.  My whole team had to have defensive ability.  McHale also used to get smoked by Karl Malone.

  Magic wasn't exactly Gary Payton but he wasn't terrible at guarding point guards. They had the hand check rule back then, you need to figure out what set of rules to use. Bird was significantly better on defense than Durant, btw.

I know KJ killed him in 1990 and usually Byron Scott or Cooper had to cover the opposing PG.

I didn't see Larry stop anyone man to man but I also caught him at the end of his career.  I also think Durant is going to get much better.  I could easily live with Larry or Lebron instead of Durant.

  Bird was 2nd team all-defense 3 times. He was  better in just about every phase of the game than Durant, and better than James as well. A team with Bird and your other 4 starters would easily handle a team with Durant and your other four starters.

[greg_kite]

Magic
Jordan
Bird
McHale
Olajuwon  this have to be shaq but i like olajuwon spacing the floor


a nightmare for defense under

For me Bird and Magic were difficult to leave off, but I think there are plenty of players they would have difficulty guarding.  Magic was terrible at covering point guards.  Jordan would have to cover the PG and Magic and Larry would be left to cover opposing wing players.  It would be a nightmare for either of them to have to cover Kobe, Lebron, Wade or even a guy like Ray Allen.  My whole team had to have defensive ability.  McHale also used to get smoked by Karl Malone.

  Magic wasn't exactly Gary Payton but he wasn't terrible at guarding point guards. They had the hand check rule back then, you need to figure out what set of rules to use. Bird was significantly better on defense than Durant, btw.

I know KJ killed him in 1990 and usually Byron Scott or Cooper had to cover the opposing PG.

I didn't see Larry stop anyone man to man but I also caught him at the end of his career.  I also think Durant is going to get much better.  I could easily live with Larry or Lebron instead of Durant.

  Bird was 2nd team all-defense 3 times. He was  better in just about every phase of the game than Durant, and better than James as well. A team with Bird and your other 4 starters would easily handle a team with Durant and your other four starters.

Alright you sold me.  But not just on his defense.  I think his passing is significantly better than Durant's and that would give him the spot.  You could argue to put Magic or Lebron in there too but I would want Larry's shooting for spacing.  If we can do a bench now too it would be this team:

Magic/Payton/KJ
Jordan/Kobe
Bird/Pippen
Hakeem/Dirk/KG
Shaq/Robinson

I'd love to throw this team out there as one of my combos:
GP Jordan Pippen Hakeem Robinson

Imagine the defense and the fast breaks?

[DavorCroatiaFan]

Dennis Johnson
Len Bias
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Robert Parish
    

[celticmaestro]

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Shaq

or

Nash
Allen
LeBron
Nowitzki
Russell

[CelticsFanNC]

  PG- Magic Johnson
  SG- Michael Jordan
  SF- Larry Bird
  PF- Tim Duncan
   C-Bill Russell

[paulcowens]

Alright, we all know people have the "All Time Greatest" players.  Bill Russell is sometimes considered the greatest center ever, but realistically, could he stop Shaq in his prime?

What I'd like to see is everyone's all time starting 5.  You have to consider how they could match up with other created starting 5s.  You can mix positions if you want, like putting Russell at the 4 since he'd probably be a PF if he played today because of his size.  So I'll start:

PG:  Jordan
SG:  Kobe
SF:  Durant
PF:  Hakeem
C:  Shaq

Pretty much any lineup can be beaten depending on the matchups, but you need to create a team that would be beaten by the least amount of teams.

Please entertain me with this game!

I don't think much of this game, because I think that the alltime team is pretty much set, with the only real question at powerforward, though some might argue over the center:

Russell
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Johnson

The comment you make about Russell vs Shaq is just so pointless and tiresome, in my opinion.  If we were really to have various all-time teams face off against each other, we'd have to give them all equal advantages.  We'd have to assume that the old-timers would have the fitness and training advantages that today's players have.  Thus, I think you'd see Bill Russell playing with a body more akin to Dwight Howard, combining speed, jumping ability and endurance with power.  Russell would come into this knowing that he'd have to add bulk to cope with the likes of Shaq.  At the same time,  Shaq would have to cope with Russell's speed and endurance.  We'd also see old-timers who would have the opportunity to pick up skills of later generations.  To assume that an old timer couldn't, for example, become a strong three shooter is silly.  If Larry Bird were in the game today, his threes would be even more deadly.

Thus the only consideration that would divide different eras is height, and that might require folks changing positions.  But mostly, the truly greats make height surprisingly less relevant.  Just as Magic would be point guard, despite his ridiculous height, Russell would be center, despite giving up pounds and height.

If it seems a little bit too artificial to imagine old-timers having a chance to 'catch up' with today's stars in terms of physical training and skills, just consider how artificial the whole concept of having stars from different eras play each other is.  Russell's strength was in his mind, and still today that would give him a tremendous advantage.

[greg_kite]

Alright, we all know people have the "All Time Greatest" players.  Bill Russell is sometimes considered the greatest center ever, but realistically, could he stop Shaq in his prime?

What I'd like to see is everyone's all time starting 5.  You have to consider how they could match up with other created starting 5s.  You can mix positions if you want, like putting Russell at the 4 since he'd probably be a PF if he played today because of his size.  So I'll start:

PG:  Jordan
SG:  Kobe
SF:  Durant
PF:  Hakeem
C:  Shaq

Pretty much any lineup can be beaten depending on the matchups, but you need to create a team that would be beaten by the least amount of teams.

Please entertain me with this game!

I don't think much of this game, because I think that the alltime team is pretty much set, with the only real question at powerforward, though some might argue over the center:

Russell
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
Johnson

The comment you make about Russell vs Shaq is just so pointless and tiresome, in my opinion.  If we were really to have various all-time teams face off against each other, we'd have to give them all equal advantages.  We'd have to assume that the old-timers would have the fitness and training advantages that today's players have.  Thus, I think you'd see Bill Russell playing with a body more akin to Dwight Howard, combining speed, jumping ability and endurance with power.  Russell would come into this knowing that he'd have to add bulk to cope with the likes of Shaq.  At the same time,  Shaq would have to cope with Russell's speed and endurance.  We'd also see old-timers who would have the opportunity to pick up skills of later generations.  To assume that an old timer couldn't, for example, become a strong three shooter is silly.  If Larry Bird were in the game today, his threes would be even more deadly.

Thus the only consideration that would divide different eras is height, and that might require folks changing positions.  But mostly, the truly greats make height surprisingly less relevant.  Just as Magic would be point guard, despite his ridiculous height, Russell would be center, despite giving up pounds and height.

If it seems a little bit too artificial to imagine old-timers having a chance to 'catch up' with today's stars in terms of physical training and skills, just consider how artificial the whole concept of having stars from different eras play each other is.  Russell's strength was in his mind, and still today that would give him a tremendous advantage.

So this is pointless and tiresome, but then you basically repeat what Roy said, that Russell wouldn't be 6'9" and 215 and would look like Dwight Howard?  Now I'm not feeling so ridiculous leaving the guy off.  I wish I could see a better argument about Russell's lack of offensive skills.

[action781]

I'll take my chances with:

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
Russell

In my mind, Magic-Jordan-Bird is a no brainer for 1-3.  The 4-5 is where it gets cloudy.  I would take any 2 of Duncan, Russell, Hakeem, and Shaq EXCEPT a Duncan-Shaq pairing (too much offense, not enough defense relative to the other options) and I think that team is the best.  Hakeem would absolutely be one of my picks.  I'd probably go Hakeem-Shaq or Hakeem-Russell.

[BballTim]

  It pains me to do this, but:

  Magic
  Kobe
  Larry
  KG
  Hakeem

  I hate Kobe, but he's a better shooter and less ball dominant than MJ, who wouldn't mesh well with great offensive players. Great defense, and Larry, KG and Magic are all unselfish yet capable scorers.