Rondo for Steve Nash

[StartOrien]

Given the surrounding cast - for one year - I'd prefer Steve Nash.

[greenhead85]

Steve, I think, would not fit well to our current system and roster since we are trying to get young blood. He basically put down his team this season when he became the number 1 option in scoring. He was taking too many shots instead of distributing the ball to his new teammates after the Orlando trade. That trade, by the way, made their lineup much better in the middle and at the SG/SF spots. I presume that this PGs swap is more of a Phoenix goal than ours. Try Tony Parker instead since he's younger (29) and can definitely lead a team in a more experienced approach.

Lastly, we lose a future leader if we swap him with a 37 y/o guy.

[KungPoweChicken]

Nash is the better player than Rondo, and it's not even that close. If Phoenix throws in Gortat for another Boston piece, it's a no brainer, and it would immediately put Boston back in title contention.

[BballTim]

  We trade Rondo for a lesser pg in order to get more cap space and to give Steve Nash another chance to win a title? A pg that's close to retirement is what we get for Rondo's "all time high trade value"?

You must've misread the OP. The proposal was to trade Rondo for Steve Nash - not sure where you get lesser PG from.

  Haha. I guess you must have thought he was talking about 2008 or so.

Steve Nash - 14.7 ppg, 11.4 assists (led the league), 20.8 PER, .601 TS%, .153 WS/48, 53.1 assists percentage (led league), 22.4 turnover percentage

Rajon Rondo - 10.6 ppg, 11.2 assists, 17.1 PER, .518 TS%, .126 WS/48, 47.1 assists percentage, 24.3 turnover percentage

Those are 2011 numbers by the way. Even more impressively, Nash posted those with absolute garbage around him for the most part.

  It's obvious to most that good players surrounded by "garbage" put up inflated stats. Zt's not impressive, it's expected. Players with better teammates put up lower stats.

Yes, he's poor defensively, but as an actual point guard, Nash still blows Rondo out of the water.

  Actual point guards play defense. Some of them even rebound. It's true.

How are assists and true shooting percentages inflated by having poor quality teammates?

  You must not have noticed that he quoted more than two stats. In any case, dominating the ball leads to high assist totals, just ask LeBron.

I was asking specifically about those two, because I did not know. I know why scoring is inflated.

I'm left unsatisfied by your explanation regarding assists, frankly. Can you explain further? Does Rondo "dominate" the ball less than Nash? Is there a metric for that that will allow for comparison?

And the TS%?

  I didn't say every single stat goes up when you play with worse players. I'd say that from watching them play that Nash does dominate the ball more than Nash. You could also notice that Nash has the highest usage rate for the top 6 Suns in terms of minutes played this year while Rondo has the lowest usage rate for the top 6 for the Celts.

  The TS% is higher because Nash is a better shooter than Rondo, just like Rondo gets more rebounds because he's a better rebounder. Just like defensive stats would favor Rondo because he's the better defender.

[PosImpos]

Nash is the better player than Rondo, and it's not even that close. If Phoenix throws in Gortat for another Boston piece, it's a no brainer, and it would immediately put Boston back in title contention.

I agree that Nash is a better player.  If we could count on Nash to be the player he was just last season (he quietly had one of his best years) for the next 4-5 years, I'd trade Rondo for him straight up.  However, I think that due to our current situation any trade involving Rondo needs to net us a piece for the future.  Nash isn't that, and Gortat wouldn't be enough to persuade me on that front.

[greenpride32]

Nash is the better player than Rondo, and it's not even that close. If Phoenix throws in Gortat for another Boston piece, it's a no brainer, and it would immediately put Boston back in title contention.

Agree that Nash is the better player and I think that big four would be amazing on the court.  But it would be tough trading a much younger player for a guy who might only have 1 or 2 very productive years left in him.  Now if it were for CP3 I'd be all over that.

[PosImpos]

Thank God Danny wouldn't do this

Trade our best player and more for the worst defensive PG in the NBA?...Not to mention a blithering idiot?

I'd sooner have Iverson in a C's uniform than Los Nash.

Why exactly is Steve Nash a 'blithering idiot'?

Because he spoke against the discriminatory act that governor of Arizona had passed.

BFM, much like Los Nash...obviously didn't read the law, wildly popular with the Arizona populus,   signed by the Governor.

After reading Los Nash's tweet about the violence in his hometown,  this blithering idiot's hypocracy is patently obvious. 

Gonna go out on a limb and say that Nash is smarter than pretty much anyone on this site.

Just because you disagree with his political views, and apparently his haircut, doesn't mean you need to hate on him.

[joey_sorensen]

I think my point was kinda missed, the point of this trade is to free up space to get Chris Paul and D12 and start to form our own version of what Miami did, except with our pieces fitting, Obviously you could try and trade Rondo for CP3 and avoid the free agency aspect.

My point was that I don't think Rondo can be the #1 or #2 option on a championship team because of his offensive incompetencies. Trading for Nash (who's contract expires after this season) still gives us a top tier PG (as shown by all of his 2011 stats) for one last run at a championship with the current roster.

Then Ray, KG and Nash's contracts all expire which let's us take a run at Paul and Howard bringing us into the next era.

I think that for us to transition into a competitive team there has to be many savvy moves by the front office and that for us to stay competitive it has to be through free agency. The C's have been positioned to have good flexibility, but one bad contract will probably screw us up for another 5 years.

I don't know about you guys, but I really don't wanna get stuck in mediocrity again, these last few years have been awesome and I wanna keep it that way!!

[CelticsFanNC]

Nash is the better player than Rondo, and it's not even that close. If Phoenix throws in Gortat for another Boston piece, it's a no brainer, and it would immediately put Boston back in title contention.

  What year is this, 2008?  

Is defense still a full half of the game of basketball?  Nash is a completely pathetic defender....worse then Rondo is as a perimeter shooter.

  I just don't get it.  We all know the Celtics calling card is defense yet some Celtic fans actually would trade away arguably  the NBA's best defensive PG's for  one of it's worst defensive PG who also happens to be more then a decade older.   WOW.

Nash does exactly two things clearly better then Rondo in 2011 and they are shoot from the perimeters and free throw line.

 Rondo is as good or better in every other area of basketball including being miles better at a full half of the game, DEFENSE.

 This team needs to get younger/more athletic to compete with the new Eastern Conference....not older, slower and less athletic.  Im glad Danny Ainge isn't dumb enough to trade this teams best asset for a guy who is likely to be out of the NBA in 2 years time.

That would worse the Pitino  trading Chauncy Billups for Kenny Anderson.

[BballTim]

I think my point was kinda missed, the point of this trade is to free up space to get Chris Paul and D12 and start to form our own version of what Miami did, except with our pieces fitting, Obviously you could try and trade Rondo for CP3 and avoid the free agency aspect.

My point was that I don't think Rondo can be the #1 or #2 option on a championship team because of his offensive incompetencies. Trading for Nash (who's contract expires after this season) still gives us a top tier PG (as shown by all of his 2011 stats) for one last run at a championship with the current roster.

Then Ray, KG and Nash's contracts all expire which let's us take a run at Paul and Howard bringing us into the next era.

I think that for us to transition into a competitive team there has to be many savvy moves by the front office and that for us to stay competitive it has to be through free agency. The C's have been positioned to have good flexibility, but one bad contract will probably screw us up for another 5 years.

I don't know about you guys, but I really don't wanna get stuck in mediocrity again, these last few years have been awesome and I wanna keep it that way!!

  If your goal is to get CP3 and Howard (unlikely, but nonetheless) it would probably make more sense to keep Rondo and trade him for assets to a team under the cap that summer. You're basically giving him away for nothing and worsening the team in the short term to boot. Clearly that's not the best use of a 25 year old that's top 5 at his position.

[Rondo_is_better]

OL-DER OL-DER OL-DER

[Rondo_is_better]

  We trade Rondo for a lesser pg in order to get more cap space and to give Steve Nash another chance to win a title? A pg that's close to retirement is what we get for Rondo's "all time high trade value"?

You must've misread the OP. The proposal was to trade Rondo for Steve Nash - not sure where you get lesser PG from.

I see what you did there soapy

[CelticsFanNC]

  Steve Nash, rather then Rondo guarding the plethora of top notch PG's in the NBA today would turn the Celtic's normally stifling defense into Swiss cheese.  Our Bigs would be in constant foul trouble covering for Nash's inability to stay in front of almost anyone.

  Steve Nash in 2011 is far more of a liability on defense then Rondo is on offense.  It's not really even close.  Nash is that bad.

[soap07]

Is defense still a full half of the game of basketball?  Nash is a completely pathetic defender....worse then Rondo is as a perimeter shooter.

Defense is a full half of the game of basketball. But Steve Nash's individual defense in a system is not. Whereas on the offensive end, Nash's dominance is a much bigger part of the game. Nash is a poor defender, no doubt, but in this defensive system, you can mask some of that while reaping the benefits of a much more impactful part of this game.

Let me be clear: I don't think this is a trade that I would make. I just don't see how Nash can keep up his production for too much longer and it's not worth giving up a very good young player for what would be a rental player presumably. But as of right now - last year, the last five years, Nash has been the better player.

[aporel#18]

As much as I like Nash, wouldn't do the trade even if it included Baby in a S&T to get Gortat. It's frustrating to watch Rondo's inability to make jumpshots, but I don't think that was the main reason why the Celtics lost.

I bet they missed TA more than Rondo's jumpshot, who's never been around, and the biggest hole in the Celtics roster was the lack of defensive big bodies. Kendrick was missed, but also was Sheed, and PJ Brown. JO played better than Perk last season, and even Semih looked good. But in the playoffs the lack of Shaq was crucial.

So the Celtics should target Howard to adress the inside flaws, and if they can't get him, another real big like Marc Gasol or Bogut. The idea of getting Chris Paul sounds great, and he'd be the only PG I'd trade Rondo for, but his knees are kind of scary.

I think the Celtics should try to get OJ Mayo, who was projected as the best of his class and is a great offensive player, and wants to play with Rondo. Rondo, Mayo and Green seem like a good start to build (with Avery, JaJuan  and probably the Big 3 in lesser roles that would be a great roster next year). I also would like them to undo the Semih to Cleveland trade, leaving Gody in Ohio so the Cavs end winning the trade.

Next summer, if they can attract Howard, great. If not, they can still use the expiring JO contract and some youngins to get a decent Center for the future.

You can't expect Nash to play this good (even without D) for a long time, so I wouldn't take that gamble.