Steve Kerr: Lebron is more Pippen than MJ

[guava_wrench]

Just because the Heat approached their coming together wrong, doesn't make it any different on the court.  


It doesn't take away from the talent of those players.  



It just annoys fans.

It confirms the lack of talent.  Hello my name is Lebron and I'm not talented enough to lead a team to a banner.

Hello I'm Chris Bosh and I'm really not talented enough to lead a team to a ring.

Hello. I'm Dwade and I'm probably not talented enough to lead a team to a ring without Shaq or some such other player. Well not again at any rate.

Hi. I'm Dirk and I'm more talented than any of you.

Hello. I'm Tim Duncan and I'm a lot more talented than any of you.

Hi, I'm Paul Pierce and I'm probably not...

Hi. I'm KG and I'm probably not...

The Dirk entry seems particularly flawed since Cuban was rotating players in and out of Dallas for years until he found a blend that worked. That included trading for Kidd, a substantial leader on the court.

I don't buy this whole line of analysis.

[guava_wrench]

Anderson Varejao is exhibit A of why when people say "But Lebron had no teammates in Cleveland" I just kind of snicker. It's like who are you going to believe? Me or your own lying eyes?

Varejao had the best game of his career tonight. He's definitely not good enough to be the 2nd best player on a contender unless the best player is LeBron.

snicker

Varejao is absolutely, positively not a second option for a team. Look at the numbers, he averaged 7 points a game when LeBron was there. Now, he averages 9-10 a game. Wooo!

Bron had multiple other all stars he played with. Most of which are doing well or did well without him

How many of them are winning titles as the number 2 guy on a team?

About as many as D Wade has as the 2 guy on a Bron team

So, which one of them made it to the finals recently? 

oh hey I get it. They weren't good enough to carry Bron to a title. I agree. But if you think for one second you can trade Bron straight up for Durant and suddenly Bron, Russell Westbrook, Harden, and Perk are one of the best teams in the league and that Durant, Wade, and Bosh get worse......snicker.  Or hey. Trade Bron for Dirk last year. That would be funny. Snicker.

Bron had these guys and got crushed by the Celts. Now we get to see what Kyrie can do with them

Why wouldn't OKC be better? Or Dallas? The snicker is a weak replacement for a conclusion.

Lebron went deep in the playoffs with that Clev team.

How can people with a straight face talk about Dirk as a winner in a way that Lebron supposedly isn't just because of last year's playoffs? This is silly considering how people talked about Dirk and the playoffs before last year. We want there to be something inherent to players to explain every success but no team sport is a meritocracy to that degree. If you want to be able to fully credit players for their titles, watch tennis or golf.

To be clear, I like Dirk a lot and don't care for Lebron, but let's not try to revise history.

[Finkelskyhook]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

[Moranis]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

How exactly did Shaq not hold his team hostage, while Lebron did?  They were both free agents, they both switched teams, and neither one really gave an indication they were going to leave until doing so. 

Everything Shaq does is him being a narcissistic jackass and always has been. 

[wdleehi]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

[Eja117]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

How exactly did Shaq not hold his team hostage, while Lebron did?  They were both free agents, they both switched teams, and neither one really gave an indication they were going to leave until doing so. 

Everything Shaq does is him being a narcissistic jackass and always has been. 

have to mostly agree with this

[Eja117]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

Plus he actually won after a while and didn't switch to a ready made all-star team that he resorted to tampering to make

[guava_wrench]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

The main difference is he didn't have a ridiculous program on ESPN.

[wdleehi]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

Plus he actually won after a while and didn't switch to a ready made all-star team that he resorted to tampering to make

So another difference is you gave Shaq time but James have to win right away.

[Moranis]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

Plus he actually won after a while and didn't switch to a ready made all-star team that he resorted to tampering to make

1. what tampering are you talking about here with Lebron?
2. How do you know Shaq didn't tamper in L.A.?  I mean afterall LA had to trade some legit pieces to free up cap room to make Shaq an offer, isn't entirely plausible that Shaq told LA, get cap room and I sign with you in some backroom channels (or maybe he came across Magic and told him to put the word out).

3.  Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Cedric Ceballos were all stars or all star level talent just entering their prime when Shaq joined them on the Lakers and Kobe Bryant was a rookie in Shaq's first year (they actually traded Divac for Kobe just to make room for Shaq and to clear up some dollars which I mentioned above). 

[Finkelskyhook]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

Plus he actually won after a while and didn't switch to a ready made all-star team that he resorted to tampering to make

So another difference is you gave Shaq time but James have to win right away.

While agreeing wholeheartedly with Moranis' post on Shaq's narcissism, I don't recall him promising 7 championships like Moe, Larry, and Curly did in Miami.  I don't recall Shaq having that ridiculous stage welcoming.  All of that in addition to the ESPN episode.  It makes it easy to expect the messiah to win right away and us to gloat when he doesn't.

[FromDowntown]

Hate for Shaq or Lebron aside, Moranis' logic pretty clearly trumps eja's trolling bias.  Stop picking and choosing which posts and comments to reply to.

[LB3533]

Miami reaching the Finals last year was a success in my book.

They didn't win the chip, but it was hardly a failure.

In 08 we coulda been sent home by the Hawks in the 1st round or the Cavs in the 2nd round....we were fortunate to make it to the Finals and then dominate a Laker team in Game 6.

[Eja117]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

Plus he actually won after a while and didn't switch to a ready made all-star team that he resorted to tampering to make

So another difference is you gave Shaq time but James have to win right away.

How much time do you think it would take Shaq in his prime to win with Bosh and D Wade? We know how long it took because he did it past his prime with one of them.

They accomplished similar things with similar talent in their first stop. Let's see if Lebron gets as many rings as Shaq did.

[Moranis]

The reality is Shaq did the exact same thing as Lebron and Shaq left a better team behind with a better management structure.  But as with all things, it is ok for others, but not for Lebron.  Shaq switches teams no problem.  MJ misses or passes a final shot no problem.  Lebron does it problem.  Take your dislike of Lebron out of the equation as that is the only way you can see things clearly.

You're asking a lot.  Your premise is also flawed.  Shaq didn't hold his old team hostage while making a complete narcissistic jackass of himself announcing where he was taking his talents. 

The only thing Shaq didn't do is be a jerk about switching. 

The main difference is he didn't have a ridiculous program on ESPN.

I agree with this, but to be fair, that ridiculous program on ESPN raised 2 million dollars in cash, 500k in computers (from HP) and 500k in gear (from Nike) to be used by the Boys and Girls Club (and it went to B&C clubs nationwide).  Lebron's image took a big time hit and I'm sure that part didn't go as he thought it would, but I really believe he was trying to do the right thing by raising money for an organization he believed in.  And frankly, if it was someone far less polarizing that might be how it was remembered.