How is Lebron a better player than D-Wade??

[Fafnir]

I guess agree to disagree but I think performance in final series or final games(superbowl) are more important.  I don't think the Bruins are gonna have a parade through the streets hoisting the prince of whales trophey for instance.  While previous series are important, what a player does on the biggest possible stage is what matters most to me.

Eli Manning the greatest QB ever?

Paul Pierce a better SF than LeBron?

Desmond Howard a HoF NFL player?

I don't think 8 games defines who's a greater player, especially when its a team game. (LeBron's game 1&2 weren't even bad)

[Rondo2287]

I guess agree to disagree but I think performance in final series or final games(superbowl) are more important.  I don't think the Bruins are gonna have a parade through the streets hoisting the prince of whales trophey for instance.  While previous series are important, what a player does on the biggest possible stage is what matters most to me.

Eli Manning the greatest QB ever?

Paul Pierce a better SF than LeBron?

Desmond Howard a HoF NFL player?

You are moving the goalposts.  You said Lebron was a better playoff performer.  I merely pointed out that D-Wade has performed better in the finals, they have both been there twice, Wade has won one Lebron hasnt.  I didnt say that Lebron wasnt the better player, I just disputed your point that he has performed better in the playoffs based on what I feel are the most important series in the playoffs. 

Wade also never quit on his team in the playoffs.

[OsirusCeltics]

I'm not talking about how far you go in the playoffs, I'm talking about the performances you have. And Wade has done it his entire career...

Postseason averages:

LBJ: 28.2PPG, 8.4RPG, 7.0APG, 1.68STL, 46%FG, 32.5% 3FG.
Wade: 26.0PPG, 5.8RPG, 5.6APG, 1.65STL 48.3%FG 33.2% 3FG.

I already talked about it earlier in the post. Great players aren't made on paper

Great arguments aren't made by hand waving away all the performances that don't support your point of view.

Would you have tried to make this argument after game 4 of the ECF when Wade was playing terrible when guarded by Keith Bogans and Ronnie Brewer?

You're gonna use this ECF as a way to say Wade is a lesser playoff performer than Lebron. Hahahaha wow, you're really reaching here

And even with this below-average performance, he still came through in game 5 with that 4 point play. Sparked a run for Miami to win the game

Just look at Lebron in the 2007 Finals vs Wade in the 2006 Finals. I'm not talking about who won it, cause its a team effort. But look at their how they performed in the Finals. Lebron may fill up a stat sheet, but Wade is a better basketball player and comes up big in important moments

[Donoghus]

I guess agree to disagree but I think performance in final series or final games(superbowl) are more important.  I don't think the Bruins are gonna have a parade through the streets hoisting the prince of whales trophey for instance.  While previous series are important, what a player does on the biggest possible stage is what matters most to me.

Eli Manning the greatest QB ever?

Paul Pierce a better SF than LeBron?

Desmond Howard a HoF NFL player?

I don't think 8 games defines who's a greater player, especially when its a team game. (LeBron's game 1&2 weren't even bad)

It can push guys to another echelon, though.  (See Montana v. Marino).

You can have a great player and then you can have a guy whose just a little bit more than that (when compared similarly "skilled' guys).

In that instance, the biggest stage does make a difference, IMO.

Its a subjective thing, not a stats thing.

[Fafnir]

I guess agree to disagree but I think performance in final series or final games(superbowl) are more important.  I don't think the Bruins are gonna have a parade through the streets hoisting the prince of whales trophey for instance.  While previous series are important, what a player does on the biggest possible stage is what matters most to me.

Eli Manning the greatest QB ever?

Paul Pierce a better SF than LeBron?

Desmond Howard a HoF NFL player?

You are moving the goalposts.

Wrong fallacy, this one was the slippery slope.  Just using it to illustrate that "Only the Finals/SB/World Series" matter for player evaluation is a bad way to approach things

You are moving the goalposts.  You said Lebron was a better playoff performer.  I merely pointed out that D-Wade has performed better in the finals, they have both been there twice, Wade has won one Lebron hasnt.  I didnt say that Lebron wasnt the better player, I just disputed your point that he has performed better in the playoffs based on what I feel are the most important series in the playoffs. 

Wade has also been bounced out in the first round more times than LeBron and also had his team in the lottery during his "prime". LeBron has also been better in the playoffs overall if you don't restrict it to two series.

Wade also never quit on his team in the playoffs.

That's your opinion, LeBron was still the best player in that series. He played poorly but he was certainly trying.

[Rondo2287]

I guess agree to disagree but I think performance in final series or final games(superbowl) are more important.  I don't think the Bruins are gonna have a parade through the streets hoisting the prince of whales trophey for instance.  While previous series are important, what a player does on the biggest possible stage is what matters most to me.

Eli Manning the greatest QB ever?

Paul Pierce a better SF than LeBron?

Desmond Howard a HoF NFL player?

You are moving the goalposts.

Wrong fallacy, this one was the slippery slope.  Just using it to illustrate that "Only the Finals/SB/World Series" matter for player evaluation is a bad way to approach things

You are moving the goalposts.  You said Lebron was a better playoff performer.  I merely pointed out that D-Wade has performed better in the finals, they have both been there twice, Wade has won one Lebron hasnt.  I didnt say that Lebron wasnt the better player, I just disputed your point that he has performed better in the playoffs based on what I feel are the most important series in the playoffs. 

Wade has also been bounced out in the first round more times than LeBron and also had his team in the lottery during his "prime". LeBron has also been better in the playoffs overall if you don't restrict it to two series.

Wade also never quit on his team in the playoffs.

That's your opinion, LeBron was still the best player in that series. He played poorly but he was certainly trying.

Please stop using a Strawman argument here.  You have misrepresnted my opinion a couple times already.  I never said, "Only SB/Finals performances matter."

[wdleehi]

I guess agree to disagree but I think performance in final series or final games(superbowl) are more important.  I don't think the Bruins are gonna have a parade through the streets hoisting the prince of whales trophey for instance.  While previous series are important, what a player does on the biggest possible stage is what matters most to me.

Eli Manning the greatest QB ever?

Paul Pierce a better SF than LeBron?

Desmond Howard a HoF NFL player?

You are moving the goalposts.  You said Lebron was a better playoff performer.  I merely pointed out that D-Wade has performed better in the finals, they have both been there twice, Wade has won one Lebron hasnt.  I didnt say that Lebron wasnt the better player, I just disputed your point that he has performed better in the playoffs based on what I feel are the most important series in the playoffs. 

Wade also never quit on his team in the playoffs.

Teams they were on were not equal.


Wade had Shaq and Walker.


Lebron had...


Wade faced a soft Dallas team.

Lebron faced the Spurs.  


Lebron still had one of the most impressive showings in the playoffs I have ever seen, strapping the Cav's dead weight to his back and carrying them past Detroit.  


This is Wade's 2nd deep run in the playoffs.  The 1st one, he had Shaq.  This one, he has Lebron.


How many deep runs does Lebron have with no one?




Lebron had a terrible game.  He is not Jordon.  He is not Bird or Magic.  He is not Russel.  


But he is the best player in the NBA right now.  

[Fafnir]

I guess we're done, two bad games this year and 4 bad games in 2006-2007 with Larry Hughes as your running mate clearly indicates the quality of player LeBron is to you.

I perfer to look at all of his playoff perfromances.

I'm not talking about who won it, cause its a team effort.

You don't think the quality of team effects how well an individual player can perform?

Shaq's presence in 2006 made a lot of things possible for Wade. Dismiss the ECF all you want, but if you don't perform their your team usually doesn't get to the Finals. (see Derrick Rose)

[Fafnir]

Please stop using a Strawman argument here.  You have misrepresnted my opinion a couple times already.  I never said, "Only SB/Finals performances matter."

You're right, you only said they matter more. Except you never mention the other games once, you don't refer to them.

If the other things matter, why are you ignoring Wade's crappy playoff results when he hasn't been to the Finals? Wade has had far more poor showings in the playoffs than LeBron. Heck my by reckoning Wade has had more poor games during this years playoffs than LeBron.

Or even missing the playoffs and having a lottery bound team in his prime.

[Juneauz]

Lebron is the better player.
Even in a game where he's visibly struggling like last one, he's still capable of making his teammates better and flirt with a triple double. He's all over the floor.
To me the main difference between Wade and LBJ is simply basketball iq. Lebron understands the game much better, while Dwayne is just an extraordinary athlete and scorer.

[wdleehi]

Lebron is the better player.
Even in a game where he's visibly struggling like last one, he's still capable of making his teammates better and flirt with a triple double. He's all over the floor.
To me the main difference between Wade and LBJ is simply basketball iq. Lebron understands the game much better, while Dwayne is just an extraordinary athlete and scorer.

I think they both understand the game very well.


Lebron has physical advantages over Wade (and every other player) 

[Fafnir]

This is Wade's 2nd deep run in the playoffs.  The 1st one, he had Shaq.  This one, he has Lebron.


How many deep runs does Lebron have with no one?

Its wade's third run, they were in the ECF in 2004-2005. Though he still had Shaq on his team that year. His game 7 was pretty bad, though I believe he hurt his ribs in game 6.

[Rondo2287]

Please stop using a Strawman argument here.  You have misrepresnted my opinion a couple times already.  I never said, "Only SB/Finals performances matter."

You're right, you only said they matter more. Except you never mention the other games once, you don't refer to them.

If the other things matter, why are you ignoring Wade's crappy playoff results when he hasn't been to the Finals? Wade has had far more poor showings in the playoffs than LeBron. Heck my by reckoning Wade has had more poor games during this years playoffs than LeBron.

Or even missing the playoffs and having a lottery bound team in his prime.

Because I simply replied to your comment that he was a better post season player and I disagreed because to me finals performances carry more weight.  I don't know how else I can say this.

[OsirusCeltics]

I guess we're done, two bad games this year and 4 bad games in 2006-2007 with Larry Hughes as your running mate clearly indicates the quality of player LeBron is to you.

I perfer to look at all of his playoff perfromances.

I'm not talking about who won it, cause its a team effort.

You don't think the quality of team effects how well an individual player can perform?

Shaq's presence in 2006 made a lot of things possible for Wade. Dismiss the ECF all you want, but if you don't perform their your team usually doesn't get to the Finals. (see Derrick Rose)

What games are you watchin?
Wade has so many more games in this years playoffs where he was the best player on the floor and was their closer. Its just that every great game Lebron has, its broadcast news on ESPN

[Juneauz]

Lebron is the better player.
Even in a game where he's visibly struggling like last one, he's still capable of making his teammates better and flirt with a triple double. He's all over the floor.
To me the main difference between Wade and LBJ is simply basketball iq. Lebron understands the game much better, while Dwayne is just an extraordinary athlete and scorer.

I think they both understand the game very well.


Lebron has physical advantages over Wade (and every other player) 

I agree on that, but LBJ takes the edge in my opinion.
His passing abilities are getting ridiculously good.
Just a few years ago we were discussing a player with many flaws to his game, including jumpers and ball movement.
He overcame all of that, taking pride in passing the ball just as much as dunking or scoring. Looks more like a pg than a small forward right now. While Wade is always the same player, streaky and dangerous as hell but I never get the perception that he's dictating the tempo or making his teammates better. He's more of a statsheet-filler to me.

but don't get me wrong, I dislike them both