How is Lebron a better player than D-Wade??

[FallGuy]

To the OP

Hes not
and he will neve be

I will say it my whole life even if that means scream alone in the desert

Dwayne Wade and Paul Pierce are better players than LeBron

Period


ty

The idea that Paul Pierce is better than Lebron James is... I don't even know what to say... preposterous? Ludicrous?

It's an utterly indefensible position.

Which I suppose is why you didn't bother to defend it except to say "period," which is usually used when someone has nothing to back up their assertions.

Honestly, you don't have to like Lebron but you make yourself look ridiculous making that kind of claim.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Okay, so we are talking better player... I'll say it's LeBronda. If we are talking better at being on when it counts most... I'm going with Wade! I don't care what the stats say... if it's the playoffs, I'm taking Wade 100% of the time! If you pay attention... when LeBron hit those big shots against us it was started by Wade outshining him... he wanted to show he could be better so he followed Wades lead and started trying to prove he is the best. I said before that LeBron is a follower and he is lazy... when you are the best player in the world why do you need other people to give you a pep talk for you to go for it or he needs someone out there outshining him for him to want to try... I'm serious, watch the games (sidelines) I bet when you see LeBron trying hard is either after Wade goes for it or after Wade says something to him on the side. He cares more about being the best at a given time than winning. He doesn't have the fire. If I'm the best player... when it counts I'm gonna put my foot in the opponents butt and show it! Dirk was terrible tonight... who was taking the shots when it mattered for Dallas? Right, Dirk!

[CelticSince83]

LeBron is the best player on the Heat, and more than likely in the NBA.  Wade has outplayed LeBron this series, but LeBron has had a better playoffs.  D Wade was terrible against the Bulls and LeBron carried them.  While they both played well against the C's, it was LeBron that made the huge shots and put the daggers in us in both games 4 and 5.

Also, Wade is not a better defender.  He just jumps a lot of passing lanes, which by the way, LeBron is good at as well.  LeBron is a WAY better team defender and lock-down guy.

LBJ also took a CLE team to over 60 wins and deep into the playoffs many times, with a BRUTAL supporting cast. 

Additionally, LeBron won less games with Wade this year than he did last season in CLE.  Wade won less games last year before LeBron arrived.  It's very clear Wade needs LeBron more than LeBron needs Wade.

PS- I hate them both, but I rank them 1st and 6th/7th in the league overall.   

[MBunge]

Whether you're looking at stats or just obvious physical ability, LeBron is better than Wade.  But the fact that LeBron is clearly being outplayed by Wade in the Finals, and by a wide margin, is not something that should be simply shrugged off.  Can you imagine a Finals where Magic was badly outplayed by Worthy?  Where Bird was badly outplayed by McHale?  Jordan by Pippen?

Mike

[Who]

Throughout the season/playoffs I keep hearing about Lebron the best player on the Miami Heat
Pardon my french but.... what??

Besides passing, D-Wade is better in every facet of the game

-Wade is a better finisher
-Wade is a better ball-handler
-Wade is a better slasher in traffic
-Wade is a more consistent shooter
-Wade is a better defender (averages about 100 blocks a season, best for a guard)

-And mostly, Wade is more clutch. Game 3 is the most recent example. He had 29 pts and 11 rebs and hit all the big shots. Took over offensively as well as defensively. And let us not forget that 2006 Finals

I cringe everytime I hear on ESPN or NBA TV that Lebron is the best player on the Heat. Anyone agree?

I think you can make an argument for Wade being the superior dribble penetrator and decision maker (especially quickness of decisions) + several mental characteristics.

I don't think there is an argument to be made about jump-shooting ability (LeBron has surpassed him), defensive ability or finishing ability at the rim.

[CelticSince83]

@MBunge- Can I imagine a situation like you described?  I'll do you 1 better and give you an example.

Tony Parker outplaying Duncan in the 2007 NBA Finals.  Duncan was still an elite player in 07, 4th in MVP voting, had a better regular season, and better post-season than Parker.  It was Parker who had the better Finals though and won Finals MVP.

I understand what you are getting at, but I think my example is pretty strong.  And yes, I do put Duncan into the same category as Bird, Magic, Jordan as a top 10 player of all-time.

[Employee8]

Both LeBron and Wade have the benefit of having the refs on their sides.  LeBron gets away with traveling and if you farted on Wade in the '06 Finals, it's a personal foul on you.  But taking away the refs and looking only at those two...

Really, you can throw numbers at each other but the reality is that both are superstars and both have the ability to take over games and if they struggle, it's likely their teams would lose.  It boils down to leadership and the "making everybody else better" factor.  LeBron has zero leadership.  Here's an example of how LeBron leads in our terms.

You're an average basketball player and are always near the last chosen for a pick up basketball game.  The totally awesome playground legend is the captain of a team and he chooses you because well, it's either you or that skinny guy.  In the game, you're playing with that guy and you lob him a really nifty pass and he completes the play.  He looks to you, grins and slaps you a high five.  You're feeling like you're on top of the world right?  Your team is up by a couple points and that totally awesome dude calls a time out and gives everyone a pep talk.  "Come on guys, you're all playing great.  Let's lock down on D and make this happen.  Several more baskets and we got this!  Let's do this!!"  Great leadership right?  Inspiring?  Sure.

Well, the other team goes on a run and finishes the game without your team scoring a point.  What does this totally awesome dude do?  Walk away and doesn't give you any props for the game you played.

This is LeBron.  This is no leadership. (And this is Kobe as well.  How he wins is a different story).

Wade at least sticks by his buddies in going down the boat with them.  He defends his players, he stays in Miami for them and he's close to many players on the team.

However, in the words of Joakim Noah, both are Hollywood as hell and I would pick my Pierce over them any day.

[MBunge]

@MBunge- Can I imagine a situation like you described?  I'll do you 1 better and give you an example.

Tony Parker outplaying Duncan in the 2007 NBA Finals.  Duncan was still an elite player in 07, 4th in MVP voting, had a better regular season, and better post-season than Parker.  It was Parker who had the better Finals though and won Finals MVP.

I understand what you are getting at, but I think my example is pretty strong.  And yes, I do put Duncan into the same category as Bird, Magic, Jordan as a top 10 player of all-time.

That's not a bad example, except the gap between Parker and Duncan really wasn't that large.  Parker averaged 6.2 more points a game and shot 56% to Duncan's 44% from the field.  However, Duncan's 18.3 points a game that Finals was only bit below Duncan's scoring average and Duncan not only doubled Parker's rebound totals, he averaged more assists, steals and blocks.  In other words, Parker may have won the MVP and been the offensive punch of the Spurs in that series, but Duncan still played pretty well and was instrumental in the victory.

Constrast that with this series.

Wade - 39.5 mins, 29.8 pts, 58% shooting, 8 rebs, 4.3 asts, 1.5 stls, 1.5 blks, 1.5 tos.

LeBron - 44 mins, 17.3 pts, 46% shooting, 7.3 rebs, 6.3 asts, 2.2 stls, .2 blks, 3.5 tos.

Dwyane Wade is playing like Dwayne Wade.  LeBron is playing like...well, Lamar Odom.

Mike

[wdleehi]

Okay, so we are talking better player... I'll say it's LeBronda. If we are talking better at being on when it counts most... I'm going with Wade! I don't care what the stats say... if it's the playoffs, I'm taking Wade 100% of the time! If you pay attention... when LeBron hit those big shots against us it was started by Wade outshining him... he wanted to show he could be better so he followed Wades lead and started trying to prove he is the best. I said before that LeBron is a follower and he is lazy... when you are the best player in the world why do you need other people to give you a pep talk for you to go for it or he needs someone out there outshining him for him to want to try... I'm serious, watch the games (sidelines) I bet when you see LeBron trying hard is either after Wade goes for it or after Wade says something to him on the side. He cares more about being the best at a given time than winning. He doesn't have the fire. If I'm the best player... when it counts I'm gonna put my foot in the opponents butt and show it! Dirk was terrible tonight... who was taking the shots when it mattered for Dallas? Right, Dirk!

Didn't Wade blame the basketball gods for his miss at the end of the game? 

[jambr380]

Both LeBron and Wade have the benefit of having the refs on their sides.  LeBron gets away with traveling and if you farted on Wade in the '06 Finals, it's a personal foul on you.  But taking away the refs and looking only at those two...

Really, you can throw numbers at each other but the reality is that both are superstars and both have the ability to take over games and if they struggle, it's likely their teams would lose.  It boils down to leadership and the "making everybody else better" factor.  LeBron has zero leadership.  Here's an example of how LeBron leads in our terms.

You're an average basketball player and are always near the last chosen for a pick up basketball game.  The totally awesome playground legend is the captain of a team and he chooses you because well, it's either you or that skinny guy.  In the game, you're playing with that guy and you lob him a really nifty pass and he completes the play.  He looks to you, grins and slaps you a high five.  You're feeling like you're on top of the world right?  Your team is up by a couple points and that totally awesome dude calls a time out and gives everyone a pep talk.  "Come on guys, you're all playing great.  Let's lock down on D and make this happen.  Several more baskets and we got this!  Let's do this!!"  Great leadership right?  Inspiring?  Sure.

Well, the other team goes on a run and finishes the game without your team scoring a point.  What does this totally awesome dude do?  Walk away and doesn't give you any props for the game you played.

This is LeBron.  This is no leadership. (And this is Kobe as well.  How he wins is a different story).

Wade at least sticks by his buddies in going down the boat with them.  He defends his players, he stays in Miami for them and he's close to many players on the team.

However, in the words of Joakim Noah, both are Hollywood as hell and I would pick my Pierce over them any day.

It's not like Lebron left after his rookie contract. He played for Cleveland since 03 and always had the team at the top of the contention ladder. You make Wade sound like he is a good soldier, sticking with a horrible team, but everybody knew Miami had enormous cap space and that they would make a splash. All Cleveland had was the MLE. Frankly, if LA or NY (the only other cities I can see players wanting to play in as much as Miami) had cap space for three max players, the three of them probably would have gone there. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see them go to a place like Minnesota in order to play together and win.

[LB3533]

Wade is certainly performing better than Lebron in these Finals, but that doesn't make Wade the better player than Lebron.

[Chief]

Wade is a better playoff player. Lebron is "king" of the regular season where nothing matters.

[jambr380]

Okay, so we are talking better player... I'll say it's LeBronda. If we are talking better at being on when it counts most... I'm going with Wade! I don't care what the stats say... if it's the playoffs, I'm taking Wade 100% of the time! If you pay attention... when LeBron hit those big shots against us it was started by Wade outshining him... he wanted to show he could be better so he followed Wades lead and started trying to prove he is the best. I said before that LeBron is a follower and he is lazy... when you are the best player in the world why do you need other people to give you a pep talk for you to go for it or he needs someone out there outshining him for him to want to try... I'm serious, watch the games (sidelines) I bet when you see LeBron trying hard is either after Wade goes for it or after Wade says something to him on the side. He cares more about being the best at a given time than winning. He doesn't have the fire. If I'm the best player... when it counts I'm gonna put my foot in the opponents butt and show it! Dirk was terrible tonight... who was taking the shots when it mattered for Dallas? Right, Dirk!

Didn't Wade blame the basketball gods for his miss at the end of the game? 

I guess I get people's decision to take Wade over Lebron in the finals (albeit with a VERY small sample size of less than two finals series' per player), but why would anyone take Wade over Lebron in the playoffs? Lebron has consistently taken his teams deep into the playoffs each year, while Wade has had marginal success outside of 06.

Add in the regular season (see Nickagneta's posts) and the argument really doesn't hold a lot of weight.

[OsirusCeltics]

Okay, so we are talking better player... I'll say it's LeBronda. If we are talking better at being on when it counts most... I'm going with Wade! I don't care what the stats say... if it's the playoffs, I'm taking Wade 100% of the time! If you pay attention... when LeBron hit those big shots against us it was started by Wade outshining him... he wanted to show he could be better so he followed Wades lead and started trying to prove he is the best. I said before that LeBron is a follower and he is lazy... when you are the best player in the world why do you need other people to give you a pep talk for you to go for it or he needs someone out there outshining him for him to want to try... I'm serious, watch the games (sidelines) I bet when you see LeBron trying hard is either after Wade goes for it or after Wade says something to him on the side. He cares more about being the best at a given time than winning. He doesn't have the fire. If I'm the best player... when it counts I'm gonna put my foot in the opponents butt and show it! Dirk was terrible tonight... who was taking the shots when it mattered for Dallas? Right, Dirk!

Didn't Wade blame the basketball gods for his miss at the end of the game? 

I guess I get people's decision to take Wade over Lebron in the finals (albeit with a VERY small sample size of less than two finals series' per player), but why would anyone take Wade over Lebron in the playoffs? Lebron has consistently taken his teams deep into the playoffs each year, while Wade has had marginal success outside of 06.

Add in the regular season (see Nickagneta's posts) and the argument really doesn't hold a lot of weight.

I don't know how some brush off playoff performances like its nothing. If you don't perform well in the playoffs/Finals, how would you consider your self a great player
Wade has been clutch his entire career. While fans overhype Lebron being clutch in 3 playoff rounds

[makaveli]

I would choose Wade