Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler

[KungPoweChicken]

Trade our young athletic play-off tested NBA champion allstar 1st team all defense point guard for two rookies?

Am I over valuing Rondo or under estimating Rubio and Williams. 

Probably a combination of the two, but that's just me.

[CelticSince83]

When did Ridnour become a better offensive fit for the Celtics than Rondo? 

Is this Luke Ridnour we are talking about?  The 10 and 5 career guy from Oregon?  I really don't like giving up our one clear advantage over the Heat (point guard) if we want to win next year.  Also, assuming someone had a gun to my head and forced me to trade Rondo to MIN, I would def rather have Flynn than Ridnour.  Ridnour is one of the most fungible players in the league. 

[Fan from VT]

As someone previously pointed out (Chris?) it depends on the Filler.

If Minny wanted to shed their longer deals and you could do Rubio, #2 (Williams, I'd hope), Ridnour, and Darko, C's could trot out:

Ridnour (maybe a better fit offensively than rondo, good bridge until (if) rubio is ready)/Rubio/West
Allen/West/Bradley/Wafer
Pierce/Green/Williams
KG/JO/Williams
Darko/JO

Minny would just have:
Rondo/Flynn
Webster/ellington
Beasley/Johnson
Randolph/Tolliver
Love/Pekovic

They'd be a running group, and they'd have locked down a semi-franchise type in a poor free agent destination and still have a lot of financial flexibility.

I don't think the Celtics could ever get the salaries to match in a deal like that, unfortunately. I think getting Darko alone as the "filler" would be an incredible steal though.


Rubio, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, and Darko, with Green, Williams, and West on the bench is a much superior team than what the Celtics have now.

I just don't see the incentive for Minnesota to strip away most of their team, though.

Depending on timing, i think the salaries do match as is. Darko 4.8, Ridnour 4, and rights to Rubio = 0 until he signs, and Williams = draft pick, no salary if the trade is made before he is officially selected.

[BballTim]

As someone previously pointed out (Chris?) it depends on the Filler.

If Minny wanted to shed their longer deals and you could do Rubio, #2 (Williams, I'd hope), Ridnour, and Darko, C's could trot out:

Ridnour (maybe a better fit offensively than rondo, good bridge until (if) rubio is ready)/Rubio/West
Allen/West/Bradley/Wafer
Pierce/Green/Williams
KG/JO/Williams
Darko/JO

Minny would just have:
Rondo/Flynn
Webster/ellington
Beasley/Johnson
Randolph/Tolliver
Love/Pekovic

They'd be a running group, and they'd have locked down a semi-franchise type in a poor free agent destination and still have a lot of financial flexibility.

I don't think the Celtics could ever get the salaries to match in a deal like that, unfortunately. I think getting Darko alone as the "filler" would be an incredible steal though.


Rubio, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, and Darko, with Green, Williams, and West on the bench is a much superior team than what the Celtics have now.

  This year's team would probably crush that group. Honestly, you don't even know whether Rubio would be able to start for Minny next year, but you're penciling him in as a major player on a contending team. That's a recipe for disaster.

[KungPoweChicken]

As someone previously pointed out (Chris?) it depends on the Filler.

If Minny wanted to shed their longer deals and you could do Rubio, #2 (Williams, I'd hope), Ridnour, and Darko, C's could trot out:

Ridnour (maybe a better fit offensively than rondo, good bridge until (if) rubio is ready)/Rubio/West
Allen/West/Bradley/Wafer
Pierce/Green/Williams
KG/JO/Williams
Darko/JO

Minny would just have:
Rondo/Flynn
Webster/ellington
Beasley/Johnson
Randolph/Tolliver
Love/Pekovic

They'd be a running group, and they'd have locked down a semi-franchise type in a poor free agent destination and still have a lot of financial flexibility.

I don't think the Celtics could ever get the salaries to match in a deal like that, unfortunately. I think getting Darko alone as the "filler" would be an incredible steal though.


Rubio, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, and Darko, with Green, Williams, and West on the bench is a much superior team than what the Celtics have now.

  This year's team would probably crush that group. Honestly, you don't even know whether Rubio would be able to start for Minny next year, but you're penciling him in as a major player on a contending team. That's a recipe for disaster.

If we're talking about the Celtics team that was playing in November, then I agree. They would probably be better. But if we're talking about that Celtics team in the playoffs that lacked depth, youth, athleticism, and a center, then I disagree.

Darko is an immediate upgrade, especially defensively, over Jermaine O'Neal and whatever the Celtics could get in free agency. Rubio is a gamble. But as you know, I don't think that much of Rondo, and Rubio's offense wouldn't be relied upon. I think he could do the job of setting guys up nicely. Having the firepower of a guy like Williams off the bench easily makes up for any deficiencies Rubio would bring to the offense, which I don't think would be much.

[CelticSince83]

"Darko is an immediate upgrade, especially defensively, over Jermaine O'Neal...."

Ummmmm, no.  JO is still a good defensive player in this league.  Look @ his Drtg and blocks per game in limited minutes.  Darko has a BRUTAL Drtg.  I don't even understand how you can for a second think Darko is clearly a better defender than JO.

Then again, you also think that Luke Ridnour is a better option at PG than Rondo, so maybe this does make sense.  This team you want to put out there wins 45 games, MAYBE.

[Cman]

I don't happen to like the trade, but that's because:
(a) I dont like Rubio that much and
(b) Derrick Williams won't be available at #2 -- I'm betting the Cavs pick him at #1.

Question to the OP: do you still do the deal if it is Rubio + K. Irving + filler for Rondo?

I don't.

I do agree with another poster that Darko as "filler" would be a steal, but if you include Darko in this deal he isn't filler, he's the best player the Cs would be getting back from the TWolves.

[BballTim]

As someone previously pointed out (Chris?) it depends on the Filler.

If Minny wanted to shed their longer deals and you could do Rubio, #2 (Williams, I'd hope), Ridnour, and Darko, C's could trot out:

Ridnour (maybe a better fit offensively than rondo, good bridge until (if) rubio is ready)/Rubio/West
Allen/West/Bradley/Wafer
Pierce/Green/Williams
KG/JO/Williams
Darko/JO

Minny would just have:
Rondo/Flynn
Webster/ellington
Beasley/Johnson
Randolph/Tolliver
Love/Pekovic

They'd be a running group, and they'd have locked down a semi-franchise type in a poor free agent destination and still have a lot of financial flexibility.

I don't think the Celtics could ever get the salaries to match in a deal like that, unfortunately. I think getting Darko alone as the "filler" would be an incredible steal though.


Rubio, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, and Darko, with Green, Williams, and West on the bench is a much superior team than what the Celtics have now.

  This year's team would probably crush that group. Honestly, you don't even know whether Rubio would be able to start for Minny next year, but you're penciling him in as a major player on a contending team. That's a recipe for disaster.

If we're talking about the Celtics team that was playing in November, then I agree. They would probably be better. But if we're talking about that Celtics team in the playoffs that lacked depth, youth, athleticism, and a center, then I disagree.

Darko is an immediate upgrade, especially defensively, over Jermaine O'Neal and whatever the Celtics could get in free agency. Rubio is a gamble. But as you know, I don't think that much of Rondo, and Rubio's offense wouldn't be relied upon. I think he could do the job of setting guys up nicely. Having the firepower of a guy like Williams off the bench easily makes up for any deficiencies Rubio would bring to the offense, which I don't think would be much.

  The playoff team (before Rondo's injury) would easily beat them. Odds are better than not that Rondo with one arm would give you better point guard play than you'd get from a rookie pg. You don't think much of Rondo, but even you must have seen how poorly the team did when he was out of the game in the playoffs. If you missed it last year you might have seen it in the two previous postseasons. It's not a coincidence. You might not see why he helps the team win, but you should be able to see that he does.

[paulcowens]

It's very important that we trade away our best player.

[dasani]

why the hell would we want rubio (a guy who many t-wolves writers think won't even start on the wolves next season) to start on this team. if anything I would just take derrick williams and leave rubio alone and get another piece/asset. definite downgrade (and definitely too high risk) at this point in time. let's see how he does in the league first.

[greenhead85]

If Minny comes to us (not the other way around) and offers Rubio, #2 pick, Darko and Ridnour for Rondo I would have to agree with it. However, will salaries work? Plus, assuming the salaries work, that is a 4 to 1 trade. Who else do we give up? Wafer and West?

Somebody posted that we make a run this coming season with the Big 3 plus Rondo. Didn't we just did that this year?

Anyway, the trade will make Minny a strong team out West. They get a true leader in Rondo. Rubio is a pass first guard and makes crisp, pinpoint passes like he did in the Olympics that's why he got a lot of attention from basketball fans. Other than that, he is a deadshot beyond the arc. Though not as quick and a good rebounder like Rondo.

[CelticSince83]

"Somebody posted that we make a run this coming season with the Big 3 plus Rondo. Didn't we just did that this year?"

I think that was me.  What I was explaining is that our best chance of winning next season, is by keeping the core together and trying to get 1 more player via the MLE, and another via the first round pick.  Not Ricky Rubio, not Monta Ellis, etc.

Are you saying that just because a team didn't win this season, that same roster can't win the year after?  I think a couple of Spurs teams might tell you otherwise.  They won in 05 and lost in 06, I don't remember them trading Tony Parker, but I'm pretty sure they won in 07.  There are plenty examples like this.  You enjoy your title run with Luke Ridnour and the Big 3 though, I'm sure PP and KG would be thrilled to trade Rondo for 2 PGs that are total luggage.

[Change]

It's very important that we trade away our best player.

its the new craze in the NBA trading all-stars for unproven college player and a European scrub. have you not heard?

[greenhead85]

Are you saying that just because a team didn't win this season, that same roster can't win the year after?  I think a couple of Spurs teams might tell you otherwise.  They won in 05 and lost in 06, I don't remember them trading Tony Parker, but I'm pretty sure they won in 07.  There are plenty examples like this.  You enjoy your title run with Luke Ridnour and the Big 3 though, I'm sure PP and KG would be thrilled to trade Rondo for 2 PGs that are total luggage.

Uhm, no. I raised the question because we were unsuccessful with that plan in the present season (not last season as earlier mentioned). On another note, the Spurs were relatively young in '05 and '06. They were still in their late 20s when they made another title run and very much unlike our Big 3 (a mixture of early and mid 30s) in the current season.

[Who]

I can't see Minnesota giving up two prized assets for Rondo.