Author Topic: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler  (Read 15269 times)

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Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 04:55:26 PM »

Offline mc34

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Interesting idea. Rubio's agent specifically mentioned Boston as one of the cities he'd want to play for. I'm not completely sold on Rubio though. Even worse shooter than Rondo, and immediately shuts the window. It would be fun to have Derrick Williams though

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2011, 05:00:40 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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There is no way I move Rondo without a Chris Paul in return.  I don't care what the filler is.  I'm not convinced that the window is closed if we added another all-star stud that can carry a team on both ends of the floor on any given night.  Chris Paul might be the only one that can improve on what Rondo already gives us.

Regardless of whether we are trying to win now or rebuild, Rondo cannot be traded for anything but a superstar.  It might take an additional player or pick, but Rondo does have significant trade value.  To tade him for potential is a waste.

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 05:02:16 PM »

Offline 17wasEZ

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.

We all think we know more than we really do....

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 05:14:18 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.





This is something I don't understand (and I'm not accusing you). But people often say, "If the big Four stay healthy like they did this year," then we'll be a really good team next year. But as soon as posters criticize Rondo's game, they will be quick to say how injured he was this year: ankles, feet, elbow, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do people really think KG is going to be able to stay healthy and productive next year? Pierce? The truth, as I see it, is that these guys, without adding another perennial all-star are done competing for a title.


Why not make a splash for a couple young players, while retaining the Big Three?

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 05:33:21 PM »

Offline Army_of_One_Nation

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If the TWolves give the number 2 pick this year, why not? Rubio is also a pass first point guard, not much of a shooter but is a better offensive player. Not much of a defensive player, though. If Williams of UofA is picked by the Cavs, trade down that pick. If the Cavs bite, the C's can ask for a combination of Erden, JJ Hickson, their number four pick, their 1st round pick next year. Hey, I can dream a little, okay.
"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end."
Larry Bird

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 05:41:54 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.





This is something I don't understand (and I'm not accusing you). But people often say, "If the big Four stay healthy like they did this year," then we'll be a really good team next year. But as soon as posters criticize Rondo's game, they will be quick to say how injured he was this year: ankles, feet, elbow, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do people really think KG is going to be able to stay healthy and productive next year? Pierce? The truth, as I see it, is that these guys, without adding another perennial all-star are done competing for a title.

  KG and Pierce are both historically healthy players. KG's another year removed from his knee injury. The odds on them being healthy aren't as bad as you're implying. Rondo's going to get a couple more months of rest this summer than last, which will probably help as well. I don't expect a huge dropoff from this year.


Why not make a splash for a couple young players, while retaining the Big Three?

  Why retain the big three? The team will be worse in the short term without Rondo, and it's far from a sure thing either player will ever be as good as Rondo.

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 05:47:43 PM »

Offline 17wasEZ

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.





This is something I don't understand (and I'm not accusing you). But people often say, "If the big Four stay healthy like they did this year," then we'll be a really good team next year. But as soon as posters criticize Rondo's game, they will be quick to say how injured he was this year: ankles, feet, elbow, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do people really think KG is going to be able to stay healthy and productive next year? Pierce? The truth, as I see it, is that these guys, without adding another perennial all-star are done competing for a title.


Why not make a splash for a couple young players, while retaining the Big Three?

True, but not all of Rondo's shortcomings are related to injuries.  Frankly, he played a ton of minutes last year at the beginning of the season and it wore on him. Nate wasn't that great as his back-up.  With the possibility of having Delonte back and another year under Avery's belt, it is possible that Rondo's minutes can be reduced without it hurting the team.

Remember, last year's starters played great.  It was the bench that let them down.

As for making a splash while keeping the Big 3, I would be willing to do it for a proven commodity.  Rubio and the #2 pick is not a proven commodity in my book.  The Celtics would be writing off next season before it begins. With one year left on KG's and Allen's contracts, you have to be willing to give it your best shot next season.
We all think we know more than we really do....

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011, 05:52:43 PM »

Offline PortCelt

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There is no way I move Rondo without a Chris Paul in return.  I don't care what the filler is.  I'm not convinced that the window is closed if we added another all-star stud that can carry a team on both ends of the floor on any given night.  Chris Paul might be the only one that can improve on what Rondo already gives us.

Regardless of whether we are trying to win now or rebuild, Rondo cannot be traded for anything but a superstar.  It might take an additional player or pick, but Rondo does have significant trade value.  To tade him for potential is a waste.


Right on brother. Only CP3 or D. Will suffice, and RR's contract would have been more bloated if not for Danny committing an outright theft at the start of the 09-10' season.








Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011, 06:05:21 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.





This is something I don't understand (and I'm not accusing you). But people often say, "If the big Four stay healthy like they did this year," then we'll be a really good team next year. But as soon as posters criticize Rondo's game, they will be quick to say how injured he was this year: ankles, feet, elbow, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do people really think KG is going to be able to stay healthy and productive next year? Pierce? The truth, as I see it, is that these guys, without adding another perennial all-star are done competing for a title.

  KG and Pierce are both historically healthy players. KG's another year removed from his knee injury. The odds on them being healthy aren't as bad as you're implying. Rondo's going to get a couple more months of rest this summer than last, which will probably help as well. I don't expect a huge dropoff from this year.


Why not make a splash for a couple young players, while retaining the Big Three?

  Why retain the big three? The team will be worse in the short term without Rondo, and it's far from a sure thing either player will ever be as good as Rondo.




Pierce is an iron man, no doubt. Garnett has had his fair share of injuries since he has been a Celtic. The most games he has played here in one season has been 71. If you have Rondo banged up, Garnett banged up time to time, and if one of Pierce or Allen go down, isn't the season just about over?

I just don't think this team can still compete for a title. You're riding on a big "what if" we stay healthy. I'm sick of that.

In this hypothesized trade, you still keep this Big Three. But you are also getting better for the future, so if one of the big three goes down, it's not that big of a deal because you're already looking towards the future with Green, Williams, and Rubio. You'll still have Allen's expiring and the clippers pick, which could net you another solid young player to pair with Rubio, Williams, and Green.


I also don't think having Rubio and potentially Williams of off the bench significantly reduces the team's chance at a title, which I project to be pretty low next year anyway.

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2011, 06:23:04 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.





This is something I don't understand (and I'm not accusing you). But people often say, "If the big Four stay healthy like they did this year," then we'll be a really good team next year. But as soon as posters criticize Rondo's game, they will be quick to say how injured he was this year: ankles, feet, elbow, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do people really think KG is going to be able to stay healthy and productive next year? Pierce? The truth, as I see it, is that these guys, without adding another perennial all-star are done competing for a title.

  KG and Pierce are both historically healthy players. KG's another year removed from his knee injury. The odds on them being healthy aren't as bad as you're implying. Rondo's going to get a couple more months of rest this summer than last, which will probably help as well. I don't expect a huge dropoff from this year.


Why not make a splash for a couple young players, while retaining the Big Three?

  Why retain the big three? The team will be worse in the short term without Rondo, and it's far from a sure thing either player will ever be as good as Rondo.




Pierce is an iron man, no doubt. Garnett has had his fair share of injuries since he has been a Celtic. The most games he has played here in one season has been 71. If you have Rondo banged up, Garnett banged up time to time, and if one of Pierce or Allen go down, isn't the season just about over?

I just don't think this team can still compete for a title. You're riding on a big "what if" we stay healthy. I'm sick of that.

In this hypothesized trade, you still keep this Big Three. But you are also getting better for the future, so if one of the big three goes down, it's not that big of a deal because you're already looking towards the future with Green, Williams, and Rubio. You'll still have Allen's expiring and the clippers pick, which could net you another solid young player to pair with Rubio, Williams, and Green.


I also don't think having Rubio and potentially Williams of off the bench significantly reduces the team's chance at a title, which I project to be pretty low next year anyway.

  I don't see the rush back to mediocrity, but that's just me. Again, neither of the pieces are a sure thing to be as good as Green, let alone better. That hardly qualifies as a solid young core. I'd go so far as to say there's a much better chance the Celts will win the title next year than there is we'll ever win a title in the future with any of those players as centerpieces. We were a title contender last year and there's no real reason to see a big dropoff.  I get the feeling that a lot of people here would rather be non-contenders than have a shot at a title and be disappointed again.

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2011, 06:23:48 PM »

Offline jambr380

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As others have been saying, one's opinion of this deal really depends on what he/she thinks our chances are next season. This certainly makes a big splash and 'should' make us better for the future, but we are giving up [probably] our best player (and most valuable trade chip) to get very young. Would it be impossible to win next year with this trade? No, but Rondo is certainly more of a known commodity and is already an all-star.

One thing I do hope, no matter what, is that we find a way to sign West. He should be a Celtic-lifer.

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2011, 06:26:55 PM »

Offline 17wasEZ

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Sorry. Duplicate.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 06:36:13 PM by 17wasEZ »
We all think we know more than we really do....

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2011, 06:32:00 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce is an iron man, no doubt. Garnett has had his fair share of injuries since he has been a Celtic. The most games he has played here in one season has been 71. If you have Rondo banged up, Garnett banged up time to time, and if one of Pierce or Allen go down, isn't the season just about over?

I just don't think this team can still compete for a title. You're riding on a big "what if" we stay healthy. I'm sick of that.

In this hypothesized trade, you still keep this Big Three. But you are also getting better for the future, so if one of the big three goes down, it's not that big of a deal because you're already looking towards the future with Green, Williams, and Rubio. You'll still have Allen's expiring and the clippers pick, which could net you another solid young player to pair with Rubio, Williams, and Green.


I also don't think having Rubio and potentially Williams of off the bench significantly reduces the team's chance at a title, which I project to be pretty low next year anyway.

With your scenario, who would you suggest Boston starts at PG?  The Big 3 NEED Rondo or someone very similar if they are going to compete at a high level, which I believe they can.  Again, they are going to probably need some help to get by Miami. But, who else in the league is better than the Celtics right now?  I can probably think of 3 or 4 teams in the Celtics' class who are just beneath the Heat, but they have their problems too.

As for riding a big if, you're right? But what other choices do they have other than blowing it all up and trying to find someone to take KG's $20+ million contract? If they're gonna keep Pierce and KG, they will also keep Allen.  If they keep all 3, they might as well make another run with a proven PG.














Well it would be Rubio's job, and I think he could do it. I know a lot of posters will call me out for this, but there is nothing that special about what Rondo does. Any competent point guard could get the Big Three (Specifically Allen and Garnett) the shots they want. Rondo sometimes does it with a little flair. But really, Garnett's shots come off of simple offense. Ray's shots come off of a screen or two. There is nothing that complex about running an offense and getting guys shots, especially if you are a pass first point guard, which Rubio is. Now, I'm not saying Rubio is going to come to Boston, light it up, and be better than Rondo at finding guys. But he would definitely be able to do the job. The idea that only Rondo can get these guys shots is, to me, ludicrous.

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2011, 06:35:17 PM »

Offline 17wasEZ

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  I'd rather try and win a title. We're killing our chances next year to obtain two young players, neither of which are projected to be franchise players. Will either of them see an all-star game before PP retires?




The problem is I don't think the Celtics have any title chances next year. Unless CP3 falls into their lap.

I think the Celtics can be the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA next year. To me, that means there is a decent chance at winning a title if the Big 4 can stay on the floor like they did this past season.  Obviously, Rondo's freak injury hurt their chances, but injuries to Marquis and their bigs for most of the season didn't help matters either.

Can anyone say with any certainty that Wade won't sustain an injury next season?  Same question can be applied with Lebron and Bosh, only to a lesser extent. Something like that would practically put the Celtics back in the drivers seat as the team to beat in the Eastern Conference (providing they aren't dealing with their own injuries).  Without any injuries, the Heat will no doubt be tough to beat next season.

For that reason, you have to keep the team together and give it another go. No big trades, but somehow, someway, they need to get a little help.





This is something I don't understand (and I'm not accusing you). But people often say, "If the big Four stay healthy like they did this year," then we'll be a really good team next year. But as soon as posters criticize Rondo's game, they will be quick to say how injured he was this year: ankles, feet, elbow, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do people really think KG is going to be able to stay healthy and productive next year? Pierce? The truth, as I see it, is that these guys, without adding another perennial all-star are done competing for a title.

  KG and Pierce are both historically healthy players. KG's another year removed from his knee injury. The odds on them being healthy aren't as bad as you're implying. Rondo's going to get a couple more months of rest this summer than last, which will probably help as well. I don't expect a huge dropoff from this year.


Why not make a splash for a couple young players, while retaining the Big Three?

  Why retain the big three? The team will be worse in the short term without Rondo, and it's far from a sure thing either player will ever be as good as Rondo.




Pierce is an iron man, no doubt. Garnett has had his fair share of injuries since he has been a Celtic. The most games he has played here in one season has been 71. If you have Rondo banged up, Garnett banged up time to time, and if one of Pierce or Allen go down, isn't the season just about over?

I just don't think this team can still compete for a title. You're riding on a big "what if" we stay healthy. I'm sick of that.

In this hypothesized trade, you still keep this Big Three. But you are also getting better for the future, so if one of the big three goes down, it's not that big of a deal because you're already looking towards the future with Green, Williams, and Rubio. You'll still have Allen's expiring and the clippers pick, which could net you another solid young player to pair with Rubio, Williams, and Green.


I also don't think having Rubio and potentially Williams of off the bench significantly reduces the team's chance at a title, which I project to be pretty low next year anyway.

With your scenario, who would you suggest Boston starts at PG?  The Big 3 NEED Rondo or someone very similar if they are going to compete at a high level, which I believe they can.  Again, they are going to probably need some help to get by Miami. But, who else in the league is better than the Celtics right now?  I can probably think of 3 or 4 teams in the Celtics' class who are just beneath the Heat, but they have their problems too.

As for riding a big if, you're right? But what other choices do they have other than blowing it all up and trying to find someone to take KG's $20+ million contract? If they're gonna keep Pierce and KG, they will also keep Allen.  If they keep all 3, they might as well make another run with a proven PG.
We all think we know more than we really do....

Re: Trade Idea: Rondo for Rubio, #2, and filler
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2011, 06:36:14 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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People are using the argument, "who is better than the Celtics right now"? The problem is next season will not be right now. Shaq is done. Perk is gone. JO is always hurt. They have no Center. They have no quality depth, except Green and potentially West. They will only most likely fill out the roster with minimum one year deals.

The team going into next season is going to be what you would have seen against Miami, except worse. Because Pierce, Allen, and Garnett will all be older, and key players are not likely to be back.