Author Topic: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...  (Read 74812 times)

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Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2011, 11:39:49 AM »

Offline Chris

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i guess I agree that people here that say "African American" will probably be given extra protection over someone that says the n word. You can call that pc, arbitrary, and judgemental (because it is). The mods are saying "Yup. Yup. You're absolutely right" and I'm glad they are (95% of the time).



Yeah, basically, what that would tell me as a Mod is that one poster is interested in following the rules of the site, and trying to be respectful, and the other one isn't.  It's not a political correctness thing, it is an ability to follow rules.

Although generally, most decisions regarding any poster come down to their responses when an issue is addressed.  Some posters show that they are willing to follow the rules of the site, some don't.  I am sure you can imagine which ones end up getting the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2011, 11:51:30 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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That being said, this blog has been established with a certain identity and moral background in mind.  Its not for everyone.  Sure, it may be more sensitive than the average blog (trust me, it is) but its also probably one of the best, mature, and informative basketball blogs you will find anywhere.

The posting standards and rules are pretty high and that rubs some people the wrong way.  Totally understandable.  My advice to that is to swallow your pride, adjust, and deal with it or simply leave the blog and go elsewhere if the actions of the staff here get you too worked up. 

I'll just add that the high standards here are not limited to monitoring offensive statements. By most other standards the forums here are really high quality. People write in complete sentences. They back up their statements with facts (or at least links). They think before they write. They respond to others politely.

I don't think you can have all of that without a certain amount of oversight on the part of the mods. And like others have said, if you don't like it, you can go to one of the many boards where everyone sounds like an obnoxious ten year old. Those are not rare, unfortunately.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2011, 12:03:14 PM »

Offline blake

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We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.
Quote
If you want to repost this without the sexist remarks ("chicks", "6 year old girls", "ballerinas", "take the dresses off", "grow a set", etc.), please do so.  


My opinion is that swearing and insults are not on the same level as alluding to the play of NBA players as "soft" and comparing that to women.  I would find it hard to believe that a woman would take offense to this.  I believe that women would sooner take this as a compliment than take it as a disparaging remark.  Though equal, women and men have strengths and weaknesses.  One of those strengths for women is not typically being a physically overpowering force.

Saying "chicks" in particular is not a bad word for all women in general, but a certain type of woman.  "Chicks" origin is from Upton Sinclair's book, and it was to describe the type of woman the character did not want to marry.  It was used to describe a weak, and unimpressive woman.

Women are worth celebrating for their many strengths, but I don't think one of those strengths is being a physically overpowering force.  To try to pretend they are, I believe, is to take away from the many strengths women have.  

So I would think, to put being feminine on the same level as swearing, negative stereotypes, and insults is an insult in itself.

I could be wrong, but I dont think I am.  If I am, I would urge one of the many intelligent women on this board to speak up.  




Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2011, 12:05:47 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I'm what some people call a thin-skinned person.  I know it.  My friends know it.  Sometimes I mocked a little bit for it, but I'm okay with who I am.  I almost never swear (I dropped an F-bomb last week when I almost got into a car accident, but that was the first time in years.)  I'm not gay, but I hate when people use disparaging words (Kobe Bryant) or use them as a stereotype.  It offends me deeply.  I'm not female, but I loathe chauvanistic humor.  It too offends me deeply.  I'm white, but don't even get me started on racism, reverse-racism, etc.

I love the Celtics.  I'm unique amongst my friends in that way, so I don't have many outlets to talk about them.  I've been to one Celtics game ever (game 6 vs. the Nets in 2002).  It felt like half the crowd was chanting Kobe's recent slur at Jason Kidd.  I felt so incredibly uncomfortable and out of place that I will never go back to another Celtics game, even when offered free tickets.  I've occasionally gone to a sports bar to watch a game, but find that they too offer an environment that isn't always welcoming.

And now I've found this site, where there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of rabid Celtics fans.  And unlike some sites, I rarely have to worry that someone will say something that offends me or makes me uncomfortable.  So I can talk about the Celtics with people who care about the team, know what they're talking about, and won't swear, use slurs, etc.  It's truly one of my favorite places on the internet, and I'm very glad it's here.  So thank you to the moderators for keeping a little place on the internet for me that is a comfortable environment, even though you didn't know I existed.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2011, 12:07:04 PM »

Offline blake

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I will add though, that 99% of the moderation on this board is a good thing and is carried out in a very professional manner.  There are numerous other boards I have read and quit reading, because they are unprofessionally run.  So to Jeff, Roy and the gang, you guys are doing a fantastic job.  This is one of the rare instances I disagree with the mods.  TP to both of you.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2011, 12:07:36 PM »

Offline stylo617617

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2011, 12:09:04 PM »

Offline Eja117

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My issue is when without you knowing it the mods get together behind "closed doors" and decide it's more the way you say something rather than what you said and you become a permanent second class citizen. I would think the punishment would fit the crime.

Also they are right that there are other places to go. Lots of people here do that all the time.

I half agree with Jeff's statement that you have to treat people the way you'd want to be treated because there are lots of people here that can take what they dish out and can dish out what they take, but another mod answered that when he said they don't want people to escalate or to be confrontational. The mods are consistently clear about this.

The Supreme Court isn't always consistent. Laws and rules require interpretation. It's the way it goes. You don't have to like it. Even the mods don't always like it. Also multiple mods have had multiple threads of theirs locked (I think. I'm having a hard time figuring that out, but lacking proof hasn't usually stopped me from making blanket statements in my past. Why start now?)

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2011, 12:09:46 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol


I can't help but notice KG can control that during interviews.  


Different language for different situations and locations.  

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2011, 12:10:20 PM »

Online Roy H.

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We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.
Quote
If you want to repost this without the sexist remarks ("chicks", "6 year old girls", "ballerinas", "take the dresses off", "grow a set", etc.), please do so.  


My opinion is that swearing and insults are not on the same level as alluding to the play of NBA players as "soft" and comparing that to women.  I would find it hard to believe that a woman would take offense to this.  I believe that women would sooner take this as a compliment than take it as a disparaging remark.  Though equal, women and men have strengths and weaknesses.  One of those strengths for women is not typically being a physically overpowering force.

Saying "chicks" in particular is not a bad word for all women in general, but a certain type of woman.  "Chicks" origin is from Upton Sinclair's book, and it was to describe the type of woman the character did not want to marry.  It was used to describe a weak, and unimpressive woman.

Women are worth celebrating for their many strengths, but I don't think one of those strengths is being a physically overpowering force.  To try to pretend they are, I believe, is to take away from the many strengths women have.  

So I would think, to put being feminine on the same level as swearing, negative stereotypes, and insults is an insult in itself.

I could be wrong, but I dont think I am.  If I am, I would urge one of the many intelligent women on this board to speak up.  


Calling men who are perceived to be weak "women", and calling women "chicks", are things that I believe a lot of women would find offensive.  Not all women would feel that way, and maybe even the majority wouldn't, but there's a significant enough number who do to make using such phrases poor form.

The argument I always fall back on:  if there's a better way to make an argument without invoking stereotypes, why not do so?

(Also, like just about every mod outside of Jeff and t-boots has said, I cuss like a sailor and make crude jokes from time to time when not on the blog.  However, like with everything else, there's a time and a place.)


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Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2011, 12:12:00 PM »

Offline Eja117

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We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.
Quote
If you want to repost this without the sexist remarks ("chicks", "6 year old girls", "ballerinas", "take the dresses off", "grow a set", etc.), please do so.  


My opinion is that swearing and insults are not on the same level as alluding to the play of NBA players as "soft" and comparing that to women.  I would find it hard to believe that a woman would take offense to this.  I believe that women would sooner take this as a compliment than take it as a disparaging remark.  Though equal, women and men have strengths and weaknesses.  One of those strengths for women is not typically being a physically overpowering force.

Saying "chicks" in particular is not a bad word for all women in general, but a certain type of woman.  "Chicks" origin is from Upton Sinclair's book, and it was to describe the type of woman the character did not want to marry.  It was used to describe a weak, and unimpressive woman.

Women are worth celebrating for their many strengths, but I don't think one of those strengths is being a physically overpowering force.  To try to pretend they are, I believe, is to take away from the many strengths women have.  

So I would think, to put being feminine on the same level as swearing, negative stereotypes, and insults is an insult in itself.

I could be wrong, but I dont think I am.  If I am, I would urge one of the many intelligent women on this board to speak up.  




I have seen a tiny woman screamed at in the face by a much bigger guy and she didn't even blink. I'd say that's amazing physical strength because the physical risk she took was bigger than mine. Does that make sense?

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2011, 12:14:40 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I find that disdaining and lamenting the prevalence of "political correctness" in our society is usually just a method that people use to justify ignorant and unimaginative word choice.

  I would take a somewhat opposite view. I think that much of the time political correctness is used in an effort to silence people who disagree with a given viewpoint. I think that likewise a significant portion of claims of offense at what someone says are feigned, and that "offense" is brandished like a weapon. People pounce on comments that are likely benign but can be construed as possibly racist/bigoted because they see it as an opportunity to smear their opponents. I think that this generally devalues actual racist/bigoted acts in a "boy who cried wolf" kind of way. I also feel that labeling a person or persons as racist or bigots based on the possibility that it might be true is as offensive as actual racism/bigotry.

  Disclaimer: I'm talking in general terms, more from what I'd hear on the radio or see on tv than this blog. Also, my dislike of the pc police is in now way based on a habit of making offensive comments or a wish to do so. I probably would find most such comments just as offensive as PosImpos would. I'm not a proponent of bigotry or racism, I just have a strong dislike of trying to gain an advantage in a situation by wantonly claiming that your opponent is a racist or bigot.

  Also, unrelated but related to the thread, it's worth pointing out that the only reasonable outcome of a thread about what kind of comments are allowed is a stricter enforcement of those rules.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2011, 12:16:55 PM »

Offline Eja117

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We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.
Quote
If you want to repost this without the sexist remarks ("chicks", "6 year old girls", "ballerinas", "take the dresses off", "grow a set", etc.), please do so.  


My opinion is that swearing and insults are not on the same level as alluding to the play of NBA players as "soft" and comparing that to women.  I would find it hard to believe that a woman would take offense to this.  I believe that women would sooner take this as a compliment than take it as a disparaging remark.  Though equal, women and men have strengths and weaknesses.  One of those strengths for women is not typically being a physically overpowering force.

Saying "chicks" in particular is not a bad word for all women in general, but a certain type of woman.  "Chicks" origin is from Upton Sinclair's book, and it was to describe the type of woman the character did not want to marry.  It was used to describe a weak, and unimpressive woman.

Women are worth celebrating for their many strengths, but I don't think one of those strengths is being a physically overpowering force.  To try to pretend they are, I believe, is to take away from the many strengths women have.  

So I would think, to put being feminine on the same level as swearing, negative stereotypes, and insults is an insult in itself.

I could be wrong, but I dont think I am.  If I am, I would urge one of the many intelligent women on this board to speak up.  


Calling men who are perceived to be weak "women", and calling women "chicks", are things that I believe a lot of women would find offensive.  Not all women would feel that way, and maybe even the majority wouldn't, but there's a significant enough number who do to make using such phrases poor form.

The argument I always fall back on:  if there's a better way to make an argument without invoking stereotypes, why not do so?
There are some stereotypes (even negative ones) that sometimes make people pretty proud though. I love the drunken Irish fighter of the Notre Dame logo. Don't know why. I think there are Russians that embrace the mysterious evil Russian. I think the people that enjoyed the Sopranos and Godfather and Goodfellas most were Jersey Italians. And they might like Snookie too. I'm not sure. There's a lot of Jews that love all the characters in Seinfeld. It's a hard line to draw. That's why mods sometimes give warnings and sometimes just refer to the rules.

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2011, 12:18:32 PM »

Offline stylo617617

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol


I can't help but notice KG can control that during interviews.  


Different language for different situations and locations.  

yeah but the media & repoters who are asking him quesion arent telling kg not too cuss i'd bet if kg wanted to cuss he'll cuss like i said i respect the rules becuase i like celticsblog therefore i'll follow anything i have too to stay on the site its really not that big of a deal it the rules

dont cuss or go somewhere else

ether way i dont think cussing or not cussing makes the site better or worse

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2011, 12:20:16 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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i guess KG wont be on the site anytime soon & well i look at it like this as i think offending ppl should not be tolerated at all BUT i can say a sentence full of swears that does not offend anyone

celticsblog is a site that dosent want any cussing on it even tho its really not realistic for ppl not too cuss but hey its the rules

though swearing dosent make the site a better site not allowing swearing taints the realness of it

p.s. kevin garnett is on the celtics ...really no swearing?? lol


I can't help but notice KG can control that during interviews.  


Different language for different situations and locations.  

yeah but the media & repoters who are asking him quesion arent telling kg not too cuss i'd bet if kg wanted to cuss he'll cuss like i said i respect the rules becuase i like celticsblog therefore i'll follow anything i have too to stay on the site its really not that big of a deal it the rules

dont cuss or go somewhere else

ether way i dont think cussing or not cussing makes the site better or worse


If he could not control his tongue, they would start finding someone else to interview. 

Re: Political correctness on CelticsBlog...
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2011, 12:22:05 PM »

Offline blake

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We're always open to changing the way things are done here, but there has to be a compelling reason.  Nobody has given us a reason why allowing swears and the use of stereotypes and insults would make this site better.
Quote
If you want to repost this without the sexist remarks ("chicks", "6 year old girls", "ballerinas", "take the dresses off", "grow a set", etc.), please do so.  


My opinion is that swearing and insults are not on the same level as alluding to the play of NBA players as "soft" and comparing that to women.  I would find it hard to believe that a woman would take offense to this.  I believe that women would sooner take this as a compliment than take it as a disparaging remark.  Though equal, women and men have strengths and weaknesses.  One of those strengths for women is not typically being a physically overpowering force.

Saying "chicks" in particular is not a bad word for all women in general, but a certain type of woman.  "Chicks" origin is from Upton Sinclair's book, and it was to describe the type of woman the character did not want to marry.  It was used to describe a weak, and unimpressive woman.

Women are worth celebrating for their many strengths, but I don't think one of those strengths is being a physically overpowering force.  To try to pretend they are, I believe, is to take away from the many strengths women have.  

So I would think, to put being feminine on the same level as swearing, negative stereotypes, and insults is an insult in itself.

I could be wrong, but I dont think I am.  If I am, I would urge one of the many intelligent women on this board to speak up.  


Calling men who are perceived to be weak "women", and calling women "chicks", are things that I believe a lot of women would find offensive.  Not all women would feel that way, and maybe even the majority wouldn't, but there's a significant enough number who do to make using such phrases poor form.

The argument I always fall back on:  if there's a better way to make an argument without invoking stereotypes, why not do so?

(Also, like just about every mod outside of Jeff and t-boots has said, I cuss like a sailor and make crude jokes from time to time when not on the blog.  However, like with everything else, there's a time and a place.)

I don't think the poster had any intent to say women are "weak" in a general sense, but tried to convey that women are less physically overpowering.  

I do believe calling a woman a "chick" is terribly offensive.  But the reason it is offensive is that it is distinguishing two types of women.  Similar in nature to the offensive phrase "white trash".  Chick is to white trash as woman is to Caucasian.  I assume he wasn't saying women in general, but a weak woman.  I don't know his intent of the word, but I would have to take it at its meaning until he said otherwise.  I realize your position of having to be above reproach and there being a slippery slope though.